Sound post in an archtop?

**rexi** · 03-25-2016, 08:11 AM

I have made experiments with my eastman 805 and had it equipped with 2 soundposts under the bridge.
When played acoustic it was no good, kind of banjo like. But all i was after was a good electric sound and less feedback. It worked very well for that, plugged in sound was fat and warm and i could play it loud.

I then wanted to go back to the original setup and removed the soundposts but might install them again.

**Greentone** · 03-25-2016, 09:16 AM

Here is a picture of the trestle braces used on the Gretsch Country Gentleman to improve sustain. I actually preferred the sound of the CA-6120 (the earlier, orange Gretsch) and used Gretsch Nashvilles in the 60s and 70s, rather than the Gent for that reason...they sounded more like an archtop than did the Country Gentleman, IMO:
Sound post in an archtop?-gretsch_trestle-example-jpeg

Sound post in an archtop?-gretsch_trestle-example-jpeg

**jzucker** · 03-25-2016, 09:46 AM

I've written about this many times. I added 2 sound posts to my '65 Kessel and it improved the sound. Gave it more note bloom, reduced the feedback and had ZERO negative effect on the acoustic sound or the amplified jazz tone.

**jzucker** · 03-25-2016, 09:48 AM

p.s. the majority of feedback on an archtop occurs at the edges of the f-holes. This is why taping the f-holes or plugging them is so effective.

**lawson-stone** · 03-25-2016, 10:05 AM

The Peerless Monarch, which is made of solid formed wood, has a sound post. They say it's to control feedback and improve acoustic projection.

**docdosco** · 03-25-2016, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

The Peerless Monarch, which is made of solid formed wood, has a sound post. They say it's to control feedback and improve acoustic projection.

I was told it was to keep the top from deforming. The feedback control is a bonus. Acoustic projection? The would tend to think the opposite from the dozens, and dozens of Monarchs that have come through here. They have never had quite as loud an acoustic 'voice' as some laminates or all the carved tops. They amplified magnificently though...

I found an email from 2012 with someone asking about knocking out the post. I had replied:

"The reason for the post is so that the top won't cave in over time. The bracing as it is, may not be strong enough to keep the top from deforming. (this is from Peerless) Personally I wouldn't chance it, however you certainly could take the post out. Peerless doesn't recommend it though. The post is there for a reason they said. However I have heard of people knocking the post out..... "

**lawson-stone** · 03-25-2016, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by docdosco

I was told it was to keep the top from deforming. The feedback control is a bonus. Acoustic projection? The would tend to think the opposite from the dozens, and dozens of Monarchs that have come through here. They have never had quite as loud an acoustic 'voice' as some laminates or all the carved tops. They amplified magnificently though...

I found an email from 2012 with someone asking about knocking out the post. I had replied:

"The reason for the post is so that the top won't cave in over time. The bracing as it is, may not be strong enough to keep the top from deforming. (this is from Peerless) Personally I wouldn't chance it, however you certainly could take the post out. Peerless doesn't recommend it though. The post is there for a reason they said. However I have heard of people knocking the post out..... "

The Guitars-n-Jazz website says the "one small soundpost positioned under the bridge to eliminate most feedback issues but still deliver the clarity and tone of the best archtops."

**docdosco** · 03-25-2016, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

The Guitars-n-Jazz website says the "one small soundpost positioned under the bridge to eliminate most feedback issues but still deliver the clarity and tone of the best archtops."

Amplified, the sound post works great. It cuts down on feedback and the guitar still has a crisp, defined tone due to the solid wood. However acoustically, it does lessen the volume to various degrees. On some specific guitars it is more noticeable than others. That is my experience with the ones I have had.

**RonD** · 03-25-2016, 09:51 PM

My objective is to get rid of the howls!
If I want great acoustic sound, I ain't gonna grab the Aria!
Sound post it is! Worst case scenario, I take it out!
Thanks guys.
Cheers,
Ron

**lawson-stone** · 03-25-2016, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by RonD

My objective is to get rid of the howls!
If I want great acoustic sound, I ain't gonna grab the Aria!
Sound post it is! Worst case scenario, I take it out!
Thanks guys.
Cheers,
Ron

Try Doug's Plugs-hand made f-hole plugs that really suppress feedback and look great

**Jabberwocky** · 03-26-2016, 02:19 AM

In true audiophoolery tweakery fashion, you should try soundposts of different materials, shapes, sizes and angles of cut. And different positions under the top will probably give you different results. Enough to drive you starkers!

A violin or cello soundpost setting tool will make life easier too.

**docdosco** · 03-26-2016, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by lawson-stone

Try Doug's Plugs-hand made f-hole plugs that really suppress feedback and look great

Feedback Alert!!!!

Wouldn't you know it. I sold a Peerless Gigmaster Custom last Monday (like the Gretsch white Falcon) and it feeds back more than my guy is accustomed too. I told him to hang on to the guitar for a little while and we'll see what we can do to make it stop howling. These hollow bodied fat Gretsch styled guitars (with no posts) are prone to feeding back as we all have been discussing. Not just Gretsch, of course, but most brands.

Besides a post, I wonder what else might help? I suggested Doug's Plugs as Lawson here has done here. I will go through the posts (forum posts, not guitar posts) and see what else this player may be able to try.....

**RonD** · 03-26-2016, 06:37 PM

Doc, please, keep me informed of your findings.
What type of amp is being used?
I'm discovering that certain amps and amp models, are prone to the aforementioned howl!

**MaxTwang** · 03-26-2016, 06:46 PM

Gretsch's are more feedback resistant than most hollow guitars; in the 50's the Gretsch's who ran the company resisted producing solid guitars and ES-335 style center blocks and came up with their own solutions to feedback while keeping their guitars 'hollow'. While some mid-50's Gretsch's have sound posts by the late 50's Gretsch had moved to very heavy trestle braces and also eliminated sound holes on the Country Gentleman. Even the Sparkle Jet and other smaller single cut models that look solid, like a Les Paul, are hollow or semi-hollow.

Trestle Bracing

Sound post in an archtop?-10-2-jpg

'Waffle' Bracing

Sound post in an archtop?-11708724654_866cc6cd29_c-jpg

**docdosco** · 03-26-2016, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by MaxTwang

Gretsch's are more feedback resistant than most hollow guitars; in the 50's the Gretsch's who ran the company resisted producing solid guitars and ES-335 style center blocks and came up with their own solutions to feedback while keeping their guitars 'hollow'. While some mid-50's Gretsch's have sound posts by the late 50's Gretsch had moved to very heavy trestle braces and also eliminated sound holes on the Country Gentleman. Even the Sparkle Jet and other smaller single cut models that look solid, like a Les Paul, are hollow or semi-hollow.

Terrific Gretsch autopsy pictures. Autopsy pictures of people would be a bit more chilling, but fascinating like this, none the less....

The new Jezebel by Peerless is hollow with no f-holes. Chambered. I don't know what the bracing looks like though.

**docdosco** · 03-26-2016, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by RonD

Doc, please, keep me informed of your findings.
What type of amp is being used?
I'm discovering that certain amps and amp models, are prone to the aforementioned howl!

That is a really good point. I will ask my guy about that. Also, he encountered the worst feedback the in a guitar repair shop. I wonder if a small room is worse for feedback than say a stage in a night spot?

**LoungeRat** · 04-20-2017, 05:11 PM

I know this is a fairly old thread but I'm going to throw my two cents in for posterity.

One of my guitars is a Loar LH-600 which is an archtop but with a round hole instead of f-holes. It came with a very thick sound post (beam?) glued in at the factory.

I removed it by placing a long block of wood against it through the soundhole and tapping the end with a hammer. I actually had to hit it pretty hard....yikes! Luckily, it popped right out with no damage once I hit it hard enough...whew!

The good news is there was no change in the action and it really opened up the sound. It was noticeably louder with the post removed. The tone of the guitar did not change...just the volume.

It won't be going back in.

**agentsmith** · 04-20-2017, 08:33 PM

LOL, prs did it and the aria herb ellis has a block in it and hamer did it and tons of other guitars that sound great have done it. There is no single formula for great tone.

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

I understand that most makers don't use them because they sound like crap on a hollowbody archtop. If it improved the sound, don't you think they would be more common? The technology is centuries old, it's not like it's a secret.

**agentsmith** · 04-20-2017, 08:35 PM

it's glued in. On one of my barney kessels, I had a luthier install twin mahogany soundposts. He placed them by letting the guitar feed back and then pressed on the top near the bridge until the feedback diminished. Then he put the two in under the bridge area in those 2 locations. The guitar came back to me sounding fatter and with more sustain and punch.

Eventually, prior to selling it, I removed the sound posts. Upon removal, it definitely opened the guitar tone up in a vintage way. With the posts in, it was a tighter and more modern tone and without the posts, it sounded more like a '60s jazz guitar tone.

Originally Posted by Scolohofo

There is huge soundpost in the aria pro Herb Ellis,never try to take it away,what will it do the guitar?Maybe collapsing?

**LtKojak** · 04-21-2017, 03:08 AM

I've installed quite a few sound posts in several vintage instruments with no complains about changing the tone or otherwise.

Oh, well. Looks that this bit of info is not really life-changing for anybody...

**Tal_175** · 11-23-2021, 03:06 PM

I'm considering putting sound posts in my Byrdland. Mostly because I'm curios how it'll affect its sound.

I will place them so they will stay in place with resistance. It should be very easily reversible.

My Byrland has two parallel braces. I'll put one post per each brace right under the bridge.

Here are my questions:

1- Since the back doesn't have a brace, I'm slightly worried about the pressure distribution from the posts. Should I put a wider sheet of wood between the posts and the back in order to distribute the stress.

2- Obviously I'll fine tune the height of the posts and place them without the string pressure. I'm worried that if the posts are in place firmly, once the strings are tuned to pitch, the force will push the top down and there will be too much pressure placed on the back in ways that the back isn't designed to cope with.

Are these valid concerns? Those who put sound posts in their archtops, did you compensate for the top's give under the string pressure when you cut the sound posts?

**starjasmine** · 11-23-2021, 03:52 PM

$0.02:
Sounds like an expensive axe to use for an experiment. Is there something about the current sound of your Byrd that you want to change? Why not just look for a different guitar?

Personally, I LOVE the tone of my Byrd acoustically or amplified. It is a bit feedback-prone, but that could be because I may have set the pickups too high/close to the strings.

Pls keep us posted, and good luck!

SJ

**Tal_175** · 11-23-2021, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by starjasmine

$0.02:
Sounds like an expensive axe to use for an experiment. Is there something about the current sound of your Byrd that you want to change? Why not just look for a different guitar?

If it were a cheaper guitar I would have just done it already

I have experience fixing and modding guitars. I know many people on this forum put sound posts in their (some expensive) guitars. So I'm assuming putting sound posts should be an easy and very reversible process.

**deacon Mark** · 11-23-2021, 04:36 PM

Don't do this you have a Gibson Birdland and you simply need to find another guitar to get through the sound situations depending. Putting a sound post in basically says you just decide the lively and craved spruce top was not what you needed. This could be only for some situations or all depending on your playing situation.

**lammie200** · 11-23-2021, 07:15 PM

If this is an attempt to curtail feedback that can be done with a pedal. I have a Rocktron Guitar Silencer that dials it out. There are others as well. You can get pretty precise about what gets cut so as to not affect the overall tone much at all, if any. I agree with the others and the OP about the risks of about adding a sound post. It might not work out so well.