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Yes is fine to disagree it we just have different needs and expectations. In my world now price of a guitar certainly matters but frankly it is not the only thing that matters for sure. I really do not think one could get a cutaway Wu for $1400 but if so, then certainly that seems cheap. Right now, in the midst of what I call a recession and possibly getting worse I think for myself I have to look at the guitar if I what or need to sell. Generally, we get what we pay for so buying a cheaper Wu is great but will not hold much value at least for a long, long time.
Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
If one buys a $2500-4000K Gibson or Epiphone that will easily hold more value. I dare say that they will be as good or better guitar. You will get to play it right when you buy it so either a go, or no go guitar. I have not owned many guitars that does not make the situation different. I personally have never owned many guitars and yet would not buy one. I have play one Wu guitar and I simply was not impressed and felt the person got what they paid for and it would not have held a candle to plain old L7. One guitar does certainly does not make me an expert but in talking with those who have owned them they simply were guitars they enjoyed. In most cases they required considerable set up-work to get them up to playing specs.
If I go buy a already made gibson L7 it either plays or it doesn't. Finally, not to blast Wu and his guitar making at all. There are many builders of archtop guitars and we are lucky. However, for myself unless some unusual circumstances, I am going to stick to the big names. I say this mostly because right now we have a wild economy and an election coming up. Guitars may not be on anyone's mind so I thinking I better stick to guitars that people know by name.
In short Boutique guitars are not my personal list. But I appreciate and applauded those who make them, play them and sell them.
2bob, if memory serves me you have owned a fair number of very fine guitars so your opinion stands on good merit and experience.
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05-11-2023 01:11 PM
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Pardon my ignorance, but I'm curious what the Eastman/Benedetto sound is? Am I correct in thinking that it's brighter and thinner than the Gibson sound? Is there a construction difference? Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I've actually never played either! Probably in the minority there. I Have a Campy and a Borys, which I guess are more in the Gibson vein sound wise, warm, full, clear pretty much. To my ear anyway.
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I totally get where you are coming from, but truthfully, the economy can go up, down and sideways at any given time. I remember when vintage guitar prices cratered in 2008, no one saw that coming. And no one saw prices escalate like they did during Covid. I would say, buy what you want to play at any given time, as long as you can afford it and aren't putting your family finances at risk (though I have been guilty of that myself!). Originally Posted by deacon Mark
In terms of ordering a guitar, I would say it depends on how well you know what specs you want, mainly in terms of neck, and how well you know the reputation of the builder. In my case, I took a flyer on a used Borys, that worked out, and I liked the neck specs so much that I had Mark Campellone do something similar. And that worked out. But you have to know what you are ordering, and I think have considerable knowledge about your own preferences. That is really hard to know in my experience.
In addition, I have very little opportunity to try out jazz guitars where I live- and I live in the Bay area, a major market, you'd think there would be a lot of them around! So try before you buy has become increasingly difficult, particularly when you live in a remote area. Taking a flyer on an email order guitar is nearly as difficult s ordering custom, if it doesn't work out you still have to return it. In a perfect world, you could try before you buy, it's just getting harder to do that, so you almost have to look for a different route.
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Wu has gone up in price. The last one I bought was up to $1500, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it a little higher now. Custom features will raise the price, but not by a lot. Inlay is extra, but extravagant inlay can be had for under $100. Everything has gone up in the past year or so. But it's still a bargain. I don't know the resale price of a Wu, and don't care. I didn't buy mine to resell, I bought it to play, and I play mine every day. The only complaint I have about my 16" Wu is that the neck is wider than I like, but I have only myself to blame for that, I got exactly what I ordered. One needs to be sure about what is wanted before ordering, obviously.
Eastman supposedly wanted Benedetto to train its luthiers, but he told them to buy his book, so they did. Eastman guitars are a rather faithful reproduction of what is in Benedetto's book. Wu was one of the original Eastman luthiers. The construction is different from Gibson's, in that they are lighter built, with thinner tops and backs. That was Benedetto's preference, and he sold a ton of guitars using that model. Better or worse is entirely subjective, and I prefer the Benedetto style, but I understand that it's not a universal preference. Ya votes with your pictures of dead Presidents.
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Originally Posted by bluejaybill
Yes, definitely a bit brighter but overall more balanced...some would say "stringy," sometimes a little nasal if amplified. Overall, what I think a lot of people would see as a more versatile acoustic archtop sound.
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Ordering a guitar from Mark Campellone would be the exception. There would be no issue for me to do that except I already have one, thank you me. There is always and exception hard and fast rules don't exist. In fact in my opinion one of Mark's guitars right now would be a win. He not only makes a guitar that is affordable at least in comparison, but he without a doubt makes one of the finest guitars every made. Originally Posted by bluejaybill
I am fully confident that if I wer to order a Campellone and told Mark to build the guitar as an acoustic guitar in carving and make is a wonderful as he could...............Mark would deliver.
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There idea of the "Eastman Sound" came from their older guitars where, yes, there were significant differences in design and specifications from Gibsons. Over time as Eastman has grown they have diversified their designs a bit so they're sound and feel are not quite as consistent as they once were (for instance, they brought out a 175-like guitar a few years ago). But the traditional Eastman designs were all solid woods carved quite thin. They had a 25" scale length and a 1 3/4" nut width. Most of their guitars had an ebony fret board and a spruce top. The result was a fairly strong acoustic voice with a thinner brighter amplified voice. Over time they've added models with laminated backs and sides (I'm not sure about tops); some semi-hollows with solid center blocks and fixed bridges; rosewood fingerboards; and other features that don't conform to their earlier specs. Originally Posted by bluejaybill
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The request was for a 17 inch non-cut rhythm box. Advice was given to find an Epiphone Triumph or Gibson L-7 rather than a custom Chinese made Benedetto Clone. I have played many Chinese Benedetto clones (some of which were likely made by Mr. Wu during his days at Eastman). I have played many Gibson L-7's and Epiphone Triumphs (and even owned a few). Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
Based on my (not insignificant) experience, I think Oomph and the Deacon gave fine advice. If you disagree, that is fine, but I would bet you have never used your Wu to play Trad rhythm in a live setting where a specific tone is called for (think Freddy Green). A great price on a guitar that does not suit one's purpose is not a good deal in the end.
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Line goes up…. Line can also go down
I think an L7 is the definitive choice but given I can’t see anything listed for less than 5.5K GBP even after negotiation that’s going to be around 3 times the price of a Wu…
my impression with Eastmans is they are loud boxes, but they always struck me as sounding more like flattop somehow. Probably I know nothing though!
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But to expect a Wu to play like an L7 is nonsensical. It’s a modestly good guitar, and not a comp for an L7, therefore cannot be compared to one. And no I don’t play out. But to Deacon’s point about resale value, I sold my Wu for a $200 profit, over what I had invested, including all additional parts including installation fees. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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I’ll add my 4 Cents (inflation) I’ve owne a number of Eastmans 810CE, 805CE, 880CE John Pisano, El Rey 2, and have currently an
Elferink Tone Master carved with thicker plates ala Gibson JS model
In comparing the Tonemaster as well as many Gibson JS models, to my 810CE. The Eastman had much thinner plates and lacked the midrange I was looking for.
So I would describe it has having more of a Flat Top response. Not worse or better just different. In fact that was a very fine instrument sans the finish being so delicate.
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- 2B's and SS are both correct. Sort of. You can spec a proper rhythm guitar from Wu and it will likely be a much better value and be exactly what you asked for (more or less). If you have a year to wait. It will not, however be as easy to sell down the road. Though.. how many used Wu's do you see?
- On the other hand there are the risks both ways. Buying a used guitar isn't what it used to be. Still.. MrB lives in a large metro area where something that can be played and examined first is possible.
- Ephiphone Triumph and Gibson L7 are not all that similar to my ears. Of course, I've never been much of a fan of the Epi's. That and it's been awhile since a L7 was in the $2.5K to $4K range. More like $4K to $6K for a nice one.
- Wu guitars and Eastman guitars do not sound the same (IMHO). Eastman's are way too bright for my taste. Construction approach may be similar but I don't think the carve is. Like comparing a Guild to a Gibson.. similarities and differences.
- I still have all 8 Yunzhi and Wu guitars. As well as Gibson L5's and a 175. Apples and oranges. Gibson makes a better electric. They also used to make the fancy L5 CES which is a great example of the guitar builders craft. But, as you would expect, none of my Gibson's sound as good as an acoustic archtop. And the Yunzhi/Wu guitars have held up very well.
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Wow, that thing does sound amazing. Love the tone of the lower strings. Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
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Oh, decisions, decisions, decisions...
I think this will be the summer of local hunting and playing. A fun quest.
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Yes, that's exactly what I did on my order. It sounds great with the floating pickup, but I mostly play it acoustic, and it sounds and plays great. I ordered 25" scale and 1 3/4" at the nut, feels great. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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Wu is accepting orders (last I heard) and is probably under $2K built to spec and aesthetic preference.
Campellone is not accepting orders. Would be over $6K if he were.
Gibson L7 runs $4K - $6K unless you find one with issues you can deal with. Or an uninformed seller still willing after being informed of market price.
While Rob M would sound good on a ukelele, the Eastman does sound pretty good with heavy strings. A bit bright. But good.
Will be interesting to see what happens when the reality of actual marketplace and reasonable budgets are applied to the challenge.
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I think DuPont makes what visually looks like an acoustic L5 copy that’s within the 3-4k range. Not sure what those are like.
You know, I know you don’t want to be dealing with them, but a Loar Lh700 with a really good set up might be more the sort of thing for under 2k.
There’s a Scottish maker called Cranmer that has a modern take on the old L5s. Never tried one but those guitars sound very good to me; they have sound ports and uses the Ken Parker method of adjusting the neck which allows them to have a completely solid bridge. He has one going one 4K gbp which seems inexpensive for a handmade archtop.
I doubt these European makers will be of much interest. But there’s not much in the mid price range tbh. Vintage is probably the way and you have more of that in the states…
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Interesting info, though. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Yeah, I can't do a Loar again. That V neck just killed me. It'd be fine if I only wanted to do rhythm, I guess, but that 600 I had sounded great for chord solos too...so it was like having this guitar that could do something but your hands wouldn't let you enjoy doing it. Or something.
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I think that’s a feature copied from pre war guitars… Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Yep. And the reason I can never have the greatest sounding guitar of all time, a 1930s L5. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Well, there's other reasons too, but
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get the sandpaper out :-) Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Yep. And the reason I can never have the greatest sounding guitar of all time, a 1930s L5.
Well, there's other reasons too, but
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And that is the reason that the late 20's L-5's command such a high price. They have a very comfortable C profile neck. I guess that wasn't popular with guitarists back then and Gibson went back to the big V necks in the 30's (which are a deal killer for me as well).
Epiphones have a soft V neck which I am not crazy about. I owned three Triumphs and sold them all. If I was after a 17 inch non cut acoustic archtop that could do Freddy Green style and chord melody stuff, and my budget was not huge, I would look for a players grade, not-cut L-7 from the 40's or 50's.
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Oddly enough, I love a soft V. Its what I have on my telecaster, actually. There's some point where it just becomes too much...
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I feel odd that’s it’s never bothered me especially. I can see why it would be annoying…
I find the skinny neck of my late 60s 175 more annoying, though it’s still not a deal breaker for me.
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>>Oddly enough, I love a soft V. Its what I have on my telecaster, actually. There's some point where it just becomes too much...
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I like them too, but not the massive Martin flat top V shape. And yes, I like that soft V on Fender 50s styled guitars.
I have small hands and like the soft V on my 1946 Epiphone Triumph. It also seemed richer and louder
than the several L7s I have played over the years.
But, C shape is the nicest!
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