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Originally Posted by Hammertone
In another post, Spook410 asked "I suppose the follow on would have to be: Do you think Wes/Pass/Burrell/(very long list goes here) would have sounded better on a plank?" I have never heard Wes or Kenny Burrell play on a solidbody guitar. I have heard Joe Pass play on a solid body guitar, however, and frankly his tone sounded better on that than it did on his Ibanez archtop and sometimes on his ES-175. However, his tone on his custom Gibson, at the end of his life was better than he had at any point elsewhere in his career. That was the perfect instrument for him, IMHO. But Spook410, you are clearly not ever going to be convinced since you insist on using the pejorative term "plank" for solid body guitars. I don't think you can hear past your prejudice.
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03-19-2023 12:50 PM
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Too bad Ed is dead. Maybe he would check the arch-top again.
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Sounded like a lot of palm muting going on with the example posted.
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Originally Posted by CunamaraOriginally Posted by HammertoneOriginally Posted by krisOriginally Posted by Spook410Originally Posted by Cunamara
Ed’s intent in playing the Telecaster had nothing to do with anything other than convenience, as he told me on several occasions, in person, when I explicitly asked him about why he used his Telecaster instead of his L-5C for almost all of his gigs after a certain point.
Unlike the Tele, the L-5C was big, fragile and required some sound engineering finesse when being recorded. Unlike the Tele, it could not be thrown into the trunk of a car without a case or bag, and required even more care in the winter months. Unlike the Tele, Ed took extremely good care of his L-5C, and, today, it is still in excellent condition.
“But Spook410, you are clearly not ever going to be convinced since you insist on using the pejorative term "plank" for solid body guitars. I don't think you can hear past your prejudice.” Interesting point, sort of like suggesting “an archtop with .013 flatwounds,” which reveals a different prejudice. Note that I did not suggest that the recording of Ed would somehow would have been better with the strings you suggested, but “with an appropriate set of heavier strings,” whatever those could be. Perhaps a lovely set of .011 or .012 pure nickel wrap Pyramid or Thomastick round wounds? Just heavy enough to prevent the bridge from wiggling around and excite the top a little bit.
I agree that, given the fact that Ed used the Telecaster extensively, his choice of instrument and setup influenced his evolution as a player. I don’t think that evolution would have been significantly different if he had played his large-bodied carved archtop with floating pickup - he would still have played like himself, but the timbral quality of the recorded sound would have been substantially more interesting. As a big fan of his music, I think his Tele sound, stripped of the tonal and dynamic content that is inherent in good carved archtop guitars, diminishes what might have been an even more interesting body of recorded work.
On a lighter note, I believe that he, along with several others, is responsible for a school of guitar tone that I find unfortunate. As is often the case, a picture is worth a bunch of words:
Last edited by Hammertone; 03-20-2023 at 02:35 AM.
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Originally Posted by Hammertone
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Originally Posted by Cunamara
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I wouldn't personally change a thing about Ed Bickert's sound; he even got a great, big comping sound out of his "plank" strung with light gauge strings. A master. When comparing the virtues of a solid body versus an archtop, I'd be just as likely to call the latter a "box", just to reinforce the point.
Anyway, I was once at an impromptu session and had a cheapo Ibanez archtop with me, probably strung with 12s, and someone called Hit The Road Jack. I'd never played a solo on a hollow body with the amp cranked, like back in the day on Strats and Les Pauls, and was taken aback by how the sound penetrated and carried in the air, in a way I'd never experienced before. So, there's that.
PS using the term woke to get back at someone is rather perplexing to my mind.
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Ironically, I think I saw another Jens video where he explains why his semi-hollows sound better than his ES 175 for the style of jazz he plays.
Also do you people really think those 5 guitars sounded the same?
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
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Originally Posted by Spook410
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Originally Posted by st.bede
- 'Plank' is not a pejorative. A bit blue collar maybe but a common enough term for tele's, strat's, and their derivatives. Someone on the internet saying that it's a pejorative is both odd and certainly doesn't make it so.
- Actually, declaring 'plank' to be a pejorative is disrespectful to those who have used the term for years implying they somehow lack the intellectual wherewithal to be thoughtful and rationally analytical simply because of the vernacular they grew up with. Such microaggression is unfortunate but not uncommon in an older community like this one where the diversity can, for some, be overwhelming. So we just have to ignore it and move on as we try to build a better world of inclusion and hope. And fight global warming. And.. you know.. stuff.
- There is no such thing as 'prejudicial listening' in this context. At least at the experience level of 99% of those reading this forum. Almost everyone here owns and plays many guitars of many types and listens to all sorts of music. Although.. actually.. in truth.. I don't usually like banjos. I mean.. except for Bela Fleck who is amazing. I usually go into banjo recordings with lowered expectations. So certainly an area where I could use some personal growth.
Finally.. and to the topic without all the silliness.. archtops do not sound like solid body guitars or whatever you like to call them. They simply and factually do not. And it's OK to generally prefer the sound of one over the other for certain kinds of music.
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Originally Posted by Spook410
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Originally Posted by Peter C
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Originally Posted by Cunamara
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I was a long time ago at the jazz clinic with Mike Stern?
Someone asked him why he doesn't play arch-top'/hollow-body/?
I remember the question but I don't remember the answer because it was about 30 years ago.
I guess that was a difficult question... :-)
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I thought 'woke' was a reflection of a world view. It's an insult? Interesting. What is the right term for 'woke' affectations?
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Originally Posted by kris
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Is this the mad-at-teles thread?
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Official Thread My Mad -at - My Mad
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What about the amp? Personally, I think the focus so damn much in just the guitar is somewhat misplaced. Your pickups (though also important) generate this tiny signal that you could actually barely hear, then the amp takes that, amplifies it to line level, adds some TONE shaping enhancements to it, and then amplifies it to bedroom or earth shaking stage volumes. It's putting in a lot of work, yet gets taken for granted far too often. Those amazing amps must really feel slighted.
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Acoustic jazz guitar... and then pickup.I really like electric sound but with a predominance of acoustic sound.
On a solid body you have only an electric sound when you connect an amp.
This is a very significant difference.You can combine with piezo and solid body....but there is no resonance box.
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If you find your tone sucks, the guitar may only be one of a number of reasons, some of which may be improved by being better at the guitar. Annoying, but true.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
The dream of not one guitarist is true.
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Originally Posted by kris
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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