Planning to make a Bud inspired combo – what speaker? 6" or 8"?

[Herbie]

I have a Polytone Teeny Brute -inspired DIY combo for my another Quilter TB202. It has a 10" Tornado in it. It does not get a lot of playing time, my Tweed Deluxe sized combo with Quilter TB202 and 12" Celestion Cream Alnico is always on.

So after reading all the craze about Henriksen Bud and Blu I thought that maybe I should try to build something like that.

But the speaker is a bit of a problem. The original has an OEM 6,5" Eminence Beta. Eminence has a 6" Beta-6A, but they are a bit rare here in Northerh EU.

Some Bud/Blu reviewers have criticized that the 6,5" speaker does not have enough bass. So should I go the 8" route and put an Beta-8A in it? Would it be a good compromise between size and sound?

I know that the Henriksen Bud amp and the Quilter TB202 are not the same. But I like the Quilter a lot and I believe that it capabale in wide variety of sounds.

I know that Bud / Blu have a ported enclosure but I thought that I'd do just a simple closed cube first. If it does not work, I'll learn some porting technology afterwards.

Has anybody 'been there and done that'?

[Zhahn]

6 L 1,5 SL - Sica Loudspeakers
some thing like this?

[Greywolf]

I like the 6" Henriksen I played , but I prefer the 8" for the fuller sound to my ear

[0zoro]

Interesting experiment, do let us know how it turns out. I have a tb 202 with a beta 12" mounted in an open back Toob cab from Gitterbug. I have never heard the polytone you mention so this is not an answer to your question, but I find the tone in this rig great, thus my curiosity. Good luck!

[Herbie]

6 L 1,5 SL - Sica Loudspeakers
some thing like this?

Something like that, yes, thanks. Do You have experience with it?

Seems to be used in TOOB Metro GB. Not bad!

[RJVB]

Clearly the title mislead me ... so may I just suggest you name your project the Weiser?

[Herbie]

Clearly the title mislead me ... so may I just suggest you name your project the Weiser?

Hah! Took some seconds to get it!

Some Budweisers will make anybody a loud speaker!

[vintagelove]

I highly recommend the WGS 8 for a small combo. I have one in a baby brute and it's fantastic.

[Zhahn]

Something like that, yes, thanks. Do You have experience with it?

Seems to be used in TOOB Metro GB. Not bad!

I have the 6D1,5 SL (dual cone) which is a “full range” driver (110-15000hz, according to Sica’s published data).
In Toob metro frfr this driver sounds pretty decent with BAM 200 and AI Clarus SL-R for what it is.
I don’t use it for modeling amps, and haven’t tried my flat top with it yet.
I played a few small gigs (duo/trio) with a 335 and Sadowsky Jim Hall using the Metro FRFR, and it got the job done.
At 93db, the “D” driver should be louder than the “L” (91db), but the “L”’s frequency range and plot seem to be more suitable for electric guitar/archtops, but I have not tried the “L” driver yet.
I do want to get a 6L unit so I can a/b it with the 6D at some point.

[Woody Sound]

Absolutely go with an 8. I have a Quilter MP 8, and a Bud 6. The quilter has gobs of bass to spare, if you want it. The Bud, not so much. I have pleaded several times with Henriksen to make a Bud 8.

[Herbie]

I highly recommend the WGS 8 for a small combo. I have one in a baby brute and it's fantastic.

Thanks! You mean this:
8" G8C - 20 Watts | Warehouse Guitar Speakers

It can handle only 20 W. Do You gig with it?

[Herbie]

I have the 6D1,5 SL (dual cone) which is a “full range” driver (110-15000hz, according to Sica’s published data).
In Toob metro frfr this driver sounds pretty decent with BAM 200 and AI Clarus SL-R for what it is.
I don’t use it for modeling amps, and haven’t tried my flat top with it yet.
I played a few small gigs (duo/trio) with a 335 and Sadowsky Jim Hall using the Metro FRFR, and it got the job done.
At 93db, the “D” driver should be louder than the “L” (91db), but the “L”’s frequency range and plot seem to be more suitable for electric guitar/archtops, but I have not tried the “L” driver yet.
I do want to get a 6L unit so I can a/b it with the 6D at some point.

Ok, sounds like a good alternative. Have You had a chance to compare it with a Bud / Blu?

[Zhahn]

Ok, sounds like a good alternative. Have You had a chance to compare it with a Bud / Blu?

Not a direct a/b in the same room/same time, but I did try a Bud some time ago.
As you know amp sound is the ensemble of circuit, cab, and driver, so it’s hard to separate one element from the whole sound.

Having said that, I thought Bud had a better bass response when set up right (due to its bottom port) than the BAM/Metro FR, and for the following reasons.
I usually turn the bass up a little more on the BAM when paired with the Metro FR, to mitigate the typical boxiness associated with the size of the driver in a compromised cab design (like every cab out there). And doing so inevitably leads to the “bloated” low-mid/high-bass (around 400hz where the bass shelving on the BAM is placed). This is not an ideal setting since the BAM’s eq is inherently mid-scooped, so I turn the mid knob almost all the way up (3-4 o’clock) adding to the sometimes-too-thick mids.

The Bud’s bottom port is a calculated compromise with other shortcomings in dealing with physical limits associated with small enclosures.

I thought the Metro FR’s weakest point was the not-so-even frequency response, but I just learned that Metro FR II is available with improved bass response. The II seems to have a new back with a single, rear port and a single layer of felt inside, replacing the old 4-hole port back.

If the new design works as well as advertised (it can and should), then this goes to show how much difference the cab design and construction make in terms of sound (frequency) reproduction.

[aquin43]

BlueAran in the UK have the Beta 6A in stock:

Eminence : Eminence Beta 6A :: PS57.64 IN STOCK (17 Feb 2023)

A small box will have to be ported. The Bud uses a design that is close to one in the Eminence cookbook:

https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs...net-design.pdf

The speaker compartment in the Blu (probably the same as the Bud) has a volume of 5.24 litres with a port tube 50mm diameter and 63mm long.

[Herbie]

BlueAran in the UK have the Beta 6A in stock:

Eminence : Eminence Beta 6A :: PS57.64 IN STOCK (17 Feb 2023)

A small box will have to be ported. The Bud uses a design that is close to one in the Eminence cookbook:

https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs...net-design.pdf

The speaker compartment in the Blu (probably the same as the Bud) has a volume of 5.24 litres with a port tube 50mm diameter and 63mm long.

Blue Aran is the place with which I have been negotiating, those speakers are rare elsewhere. Only problem for us EU people is that buying things from UK after the Brexit is only for rich ones.

Thanks for the cabinet design too!

[marcwhy]

Thanks! You mean this:
8" G8C - 20 Watts | Warehouse Guitar Speakers

It can handle only 20 W. Do You gig with it?

I have a 2x8 cab with G8As -- that thing can knock a wall down! I'm sure a 1x8 would be great, too, although your Quilter cranked up may hurt it ...

Herbie, you're in Finland -- why not grab a Toob Metro?! [unless you just like building your own stuff, which is cool!]

[Woody Sound]

Here ya go, another option:

Henriksen Bud 6 Extension Cabinet 2016? - Black | Reverb

Velcro the head to the cab. For a stronger attachment, use 3M Dual Lock.

3M™ Dual Lock™ Introduction & Buying Guide | iTapeStore


q

[Herbie]

(…)
Herbie, you're in Finland -- why not grab a Toob Metro?! [unless you just like building your own stuff, which is cool!]

Thanks for WGS experience, I have had some of their speakers in some amps and they are great.

I am a HUGE fan of Mr TOOB aka Gitterbug aka Markku! When I read about his invention years ago I was delighted, it is so simple and beautiful idea! We have changed e-mails now and then, I have told him about my appreciation and I hope we’ll meet some day.

But nowadays I am apparently definitely a DIY guy. I like to do things with my hands – and three kids, one wife and an old house are a good reasons to save some money by doing things self.

All my current amps (except Polytone Mini Brute IV) are made by myself (except the Quilter heads of course). I even soldered the one-channel Deluxe Reverb and the Tweed Deluxe in the picture.



And definitely I am a combo guy. I have never had a Marshall head and the stack. My active rock years went with a Vox AC30. So despite of digging the idea of TOOB it is not my piece of cake. Or cup of tea.

And lastly: this new idea started with the interest in Henriksen Bud. They are very rare here in Europe and very expensive, so of course I thought that ”how would I get the best things of the Bud without paying myself sick”.

Sorry for the long message!

[marcwhy]

Wonderful cabs -- LOVE the tweed!!

[Herbie]

Wonderful cabs -- LOVE the tweed!!

Me too! I fell in love with tweed and especially sellacing it when I tweeded my first combo. The smell of the sellac and the deep amber it made to the yellow tweed, oh boy!

I had to even cover some fx pedals with lacquered tweed. The diagonal is a Fuzzdog clone of Durham Crazy Horse (yes, our band Goldrust plays those loud songs of Neil Young with loooong guitar solos) and the vertical lined is a Aion clone of the Prince of Tone. Great pedals, both the originals and the clones.

[KirkP]

The Bud 6 is great for the size and weight. I briefly compared it to a Bud 10, and thought I preferred the latter, but I didn’t have enough time to be sure. I usually use an Eminence Beta 8A in a small ported cabinet. That’s the driver used in the Raezer NY8. I wish it had a neo magnet to shave off a couple of pounds.

8 inch Eminence American Standard Series Replacement Speaker
– Eminence Speaker, LLC

[Gitterbug]

[I wish it had a neo magnet to shave off a couple of pounds.

8 inch Eminence American Standard Series Replacement Speaker
– Eminence Speaker, LLC[/QUOTE]

The megatrend towards more compact, lightweight gear has been evident for years. It's surprising that 8" guitar speakers are still scarce, and none that I know are Neo. OTOH, the 6.5" Jensens and Neo SICAs I'm using on my Metros are perfectly gig-worthy. In fact, they made quite a few jaws drop at the Helsinki Tonefest guitar show yesterday.

[Herbie]

Here ya go, another option:

Henriksen Bud 6 Extension Cabinet 2016? - Black | Reverb

Velcro the head to the cab. For a stronger attachment, use 3M Dual Lock.

3M™ Dual Lock™ Introduction & Buying Guide | iTapeStore


q

This seems to be apparent solution!

Only ’but’ is that I haven’t seen these here in EU and if I had seen, I could build 2-3 similar speaker cabinets for that price.

…Minor but is that suggested Dual Lock construction might be too easy / straightforward / simple / esthetically insufficient for the DIY department in my brain… And the cables would be visible…

(Although I love Dual Lock! In the pedal board – and everywhere! I even attached some sailing lights in my sailing boat with it. Trustworthy stuff!)

[KirkP]

The megatrend towards more compact, lightweight gear has been evident for years. It's surprising that 8" guitar speakers are still scarce, and none that I know are Neo. OTOH, the 6.5" Jensens and Neo SICAs I'm using on my Metros are perfectly gig-worthy. In fact, they made quite a few jaws drop at the Helsinki Tonefest guitar show yesterday.

Both Eminence and Celestion offered neo 8” speakers about 15 years ago. I have one of each! I’m sure Eminence would be willing to provide them as EOM products in sufficient quantity. There are some unfavorable opinions about neo speakers in the guitar community which I suspect have more to do with the way early neo speakers were designed rather than an inherent deficiency in the material.

Eminence offers an neo 10” bass guitar speaker that weighs only 3.3 lb, but it’s about $155!
Celestion BN10-200X - Neodymium Bass Speaker

[Gabor]

Do you have a material cost estimate of your project? I wonder, how it compares to the factory price... I also wonder how many workhours you plan to invest... (I am aware that mainly this is for fun, still...)