Nut width question from new guy

[LarryD]

Greetings all, I am very new to jazz guitar though I have been playing acoustic, mostly folk-ish rhythm and finger style stuff for the last 30 years. I’ve recently started working my way through the Mickey Baker book due largely to recommendations from this forum and have been lurking in the shadows for a while now.

Over the years I have developed a decided preference for wider nuts on my acoustics. 1 ¾ is sort of a minimum at this point. I’ve noted that on several electrics and Jazz Guitars, a more typical range is 1 5/8 – 1 11/16 width. I have noted exceptions to this (Eastman) but for the most part, most of the guitars I might consider interesting have a narrower nut width than my current preference. I know that eventually I’m going to want to invest in a guitar more appropriate for jazz.

I was wondering if a narrower nut is actually preferable to a wider nut in jazz, especially fingerstyle jazz. I should also mention that while I really like the sound of an acoustic archtop, I’m really more looking electric oriented hollow body or semi hollow body instruments if that makes a difference.

Any insights regarding nut width for jazz styles would be greatly appreciated.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Nut widths on electric guitars seems to be classified as narrow (1 5/8) medium (1 11/16) and wide (1 3/4). I prefer the wide, especially for fingerstyle playing. I don't think there is an advantage to a narrower nut, although some people may simply prefer the feel. If you go to custom builders like USACG , you can get a super-wide (1 7/8) Tele neck, but the body pocket will have to be wider to match the neck's heel.

The Sadowsky Jim Hall model, which a lot of forum member think is an amazing ES-175 style guitar, has a 1 3/4" nut.

EDIT:

I don't know much about steel string neck sizes, so I was checking out the Larrivee web site (a little Canadian flag waving, here). I found these nut widths:

L series (L-03, -05, -10, etc): 1 3/4
D series (D-03, -05, -10, -05, etc...): 1 11/16
OM series (OM-03, -05, -10, -50, etc...): 1 3/4
LVV-11 ("finger picking"): 1 13/16
000 series: 1 13/16

So 1 11/16 or 1 3/4 is common and only a few go to 1 13/16.

[fep]

I'm with you I like a wider neck as I finger pick and a use hybrid picking technique.

Peter Sprague had a guitar made that is double necked, a classical and an electric. He has the classical neck a little narrower than a normal classical guitar and he has the electric neck a little wider than most electric guitars. Really nice.

[bikemike]

Years ago a highly respected guitar player and dealer told me that the nut width was determined by the use of the guitar. Narrower for rhythm strumming and wider for lead and picking. I don't know were he got that from. But I can tell you from experience that its easier to play cleaner melodic lines on a wider string spacing. Hence the classical guitar is 2" or a little more.

[amusiathread]

Abe Rivera is a custom builder who has made all of the guitars for Kevin Eubanks. The string spacing on these is pretty damn wide, though finding info on the guitars is a little tough.

[bikemike]

I'm fomulating a plan to build an archtop with a wider neck 2" or so as I've played classical for the past 30 years. I know you can play some great jazz on a classical guitar. I just want to build one and I might as well make it fit what I want.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I'm fomulating a plan to build an archtop with a wider neck 2" or so as I've played classical for the past 30 years. I know you can play some great jazz on a classical guitar. I just want to build one and I might as well make it fit what I want.

I like wide necks on steel-string guitars (at least partly because I like the feel of classical necks) but I wonder if at least some of the extra width in a 2" nut has to do with the string being nylon.

Consider the Godin Multiacs: Godin Guitars . I'm choosing them because they come in nylon-string and steel-string versions. The nylons mainly have a 1 7/8 nut and the steels a 1 11/16 nut.

So, your mileage may vary, but I'm wavering about what size nut to get. I know I like 1 3/4, but I wounder if ordering a custom 1 7/8 may be a a bit too much.

[bikemike]

Well BigDaddy I think you would have to play some guitars with narrow and wider necks to get a feel of what you like. The very reason I'd like to build one with a wide neck if I decide I don't like it I can take it back to the workshop and trim down the neck till it feels good.

[LarryD]

[QUOTE]Nut widths on electric guitars seems to be classified as narrow (1 5/8) medium (1 11/16) and wide (1 3/4). I prefer the wide, especially for fingerstyle playing. I don't think there is an advantage to a narrower nut, although some people may simply prefer the feel. If you go to custom builders like USACG , you can get a super-wide (1 7/8) Tele neck, but the body pocket will have to be wider to match the neck's heel.

The Sadowsky Jim Hall model, which a lot of forum member think is an amazing ES-175 style guitar, has a 1 3/4" nut.
/QUOTE]
The Jim Hall model looks really nice but I'm sure I want to spend that much money yet. The custom tele approach might be an option though....

As far as a 1 7/8 nut, that is wonderful on an flat top. I have an older martin thats about that width that is delightful. I especially like having the additional room on the saddle end with makes for fingerpicking with the right hand alot more relaxed. The only downside for me is it makes it harder to fret bass strings with the thumb. Do jazz players do that by the way??

Anyway, this discussion has sort of talked me out of a guitar with a 1 5/8 nut that was beautiful but probably not a real good fit.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

The custom tele approach might be an option though....

As far as a 1 7/8 nut, that is wonderful on an flat top. I have an older martin thats about that width that is delightful. I especially like having the additional room on the saddle end with makes for fingerpicking with the right hand alot more relaxed. The only downside for me is it makes it harder to fret bass strings with the thumb. Do jazz players do that by the way??

Anyway, this discussion has sort of talked me out of a guitar with a 1 5/8 nut that was beautiful but probably not a real good fit.

Custom neck option: the more I think about it, the better it sounds. If you're happy with the idea of a Tele-style guitar, think of all the things you can specify:

* Fretboard wood. Ebony? No problem!
* Neck wood. You can go for a warmer wood like mahogany.
* Nut width. 'Nuff said.
* Neck countour. Like 'em fat? Boat?
* Radius. 7.25? 9.5? 12? Compound? Get what you like.
* Fret wire. Vintage, medium jumbo? Stainless steel?
* Inlay. Or not.
* Headstock. Maybe it's just me, but I like a RH Tele with a LH headstock.

Thumb fretting: Some crazy jazz chords require it! I also like sneaking my thumb around the bottom of the neck and fretting chord notes on the treble side with my thumb. It feels so wrong!

1 5/8" nut: Given the shine you take to a 1 7/8" nut, I'd say you really have to shift gears for that narrower nut. And keep away from Squier Affinity Teles: their nut is even narrower than 1 5/8".

[bikemike]

Thumbing bass notes are harder on a wider neck. Coming from classical guitar I haven't played enough Jazz to encounter a chord I absolutely had to use my thumb but I'm sure I eventually will. I'm a rank beginner at this jazz stuff. So I don't know alot about it yet. But I do know I have big hands and fingers and have a hard time with narrower necks. Also I have played some rock and blues and a narrow string spacing at the bridge is easier to strum with a pick.

[Norman931]

What about Maccaferri-style guitars like SX JAN-1 w/Case New Gypsy Jazz Guitar - eBay (item 390181394723 end time May-10-10 14:59:25 PDT)

1 7/8 nut width! I just ordered one of these to see how it compares to the Gitane gypsys.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Interesting. I think the "petite bouche" gypsy guitars also have a longer scale length, too, something like 26 1/2"?

[Norman931]

Interesting. I think the "petite bouche" gypsy guitars also have a longer scale length, too, something like 26 1/2"?

Yes, and 1 3/4" nut width. The SX however, is 1 7/8 at the zero fret with 25.75" scale length.

CORRECTION: The SX has 25.5" scale length.

[Norman931]

What about Maccaferri-style guitars like SX JAN-1 w/Case New Gypsy Jazz Guitar - eBay (item 390181394723 end time May-10-10 14:59:25 PDT)

1 7/8 nut width! I just ordered one of these to see how it compares to the Gitane gypsys.

I just received this, and the pictures don't do it justice. Beautiful gloss finish, the nicest guitar case I've ever owned, and the guitar plays and sounds great. It's not quite in the same league as the Gitane, but it's close, and at 1/3 the price. Scale length is 25.5", so the specs for this one are more in line with Gitane's D-hole model.

[Tiopapo]

In figuring out how big your hand/fingers are, how do you measure? I am use to classical but use a 1 7/8" Strat at church and is fairly comfortable. Now I am trying to upgrade to a Carvin NS1 at 1.88 (what is that compared to the 1 7/8 I have now?) or some Godins that are going to provide me with everything I need but are at 1 11/16" and I don't know if that will be too narrow for me!
Thanks,
Theo

[jads57]

For me at least it depends on the guitar I'm playing. I have 2 guitars w/ 1&3/4" width nut Elferink Tonemaster archtop and a Martin OM-21 Special. Both of these are acoustic instruments first that have p/ups attached.
They also have very different back shapes w/ the Martin being flatter and the Elferink C shaped.

[Hep To The Jive]

Years ago a highly respected guitar player and dealer told me that the nut width was determined by the use of the guitar. Narrower for rhythm strumming and wider for lead and picking. I don't know were he got that from. But I can tell you from experience that its easier to play cleaner melodic lines on a wider string spacing. Hence the classical guitar is 2" or a little more.

I think this is right. I always prefered narrow width necks, and the reason its so much easier to strum. I can do fingerstyle if needed, but i primarily play with pick, and love playing block chords and double stops in solos. i'm an agressive strummer, and I feel narrow necks suit me better and more comfortable to play, but ultimately, neck profile is more important, and if neck is too thin and has no shoulders, Id have hard time playing it.

[oldane]

As has been written already, 1 11/16" and 1 3/4" is the most common. As for what is best, I think it's pretty much a matter of personal taste and what one has become accustomed to. FWIW, I have small hands but have 1 3/4" fretboards on most of my guitars and I like it that way. Some say that small hands call for a narrower fretboard and big hands call for a wider fretboard. I don't agree. There's countless small women playing classical guitar - and even double bass - and they don't complain about a mismatch. Those fretting notes on the low strings with their thumb may prefer a narrower neck. I always keep my thumb on the back of the neck, feeling that this allows for a pivoting/rocking action of the left hand, making the left hand much more movable and flexible. I have never been able to play with the back of the neck solidly plated in my palm as is often seen. This may be a reason for me liking the wider fretboard despite my small hands.

Fretboard width is not the only variable. Strings spacing both at the nut and at the bridge is important too. You can have a wide fretboard but still a tight strings spacing if there is a lot of "excess" fretboard outside of the two E strings. Old style Fenders have quite narrow nuts, but the strings spread out to be fairly wide apart at the bridge. How much "excess" fretboard is best is a matter of personal taste. As others have written the profile of the neck is also an important variable.

Some people seems to be very sensitive to changes in these variables while others can play almost anything handed to them without problems. I think I belong more to the latter category than to the former.

[Cunamara]

Abe Rivera is a custom builder who has made all of the guitars for Kevin Eubanks. The string spacing on these is pretty damn wide, though finding info on the guitars is a little tough.

In an interview I read, Eubanks said they are 2" wide at the nut; I don't remember bridge spacing.

[Frethack]

I went to a wider nut 1 3/4. It is easier to fingerpick, and play chords for me. I think my accuracy is better too. I have wide fingertips that get in the way on narrow nuts sometimes. I second the custom neck approach. If you try a guitar with a bolt on, you can design and try many different necks and still not touch a custom guitar price. Find something you love and THEN have someone build you an archtop just like it. I dont know if I will like an even wider nut, but I know $250-300 will help me find out soon enough.