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I must have had the Chineese version, it looked like the one pictured above.
All in all if the nut would have been cut like the OP’s one, I would definately remember it…
I suspect that the OP maybe didn’t have luck on that one?
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12-05-2022 03:53 AM
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Here are a few shots of my SE, I included the label so you can see it is what I described. [I had a bit of trouble getting the shots up and this
is the best I could muster, with a little help from my friends]
You can see the nut work is fine and other
detailed work is very well carried out and also you may see the angle of the tailpiece that I slackened off to reduce string break over the bridge.
Which in turn, gave a slight, but noticeable decrease in string tension.
An earlier post with photos also showed something that hasn't been mentioned, which is the top grain [of a laminate presumably] is a fine straight grained
wood, such as spruce. Mine is the same. Check the specs they used to sell your one, do they say spruce or maple top?
I think you have very strong grounds to return the guitar you got.
The workmanship that you showed is shockingly shoddy to say the least and given the quality of mine, possibly from some other manufacturer.
I really don't believe that Ibanez with their reputation for excellent QC would allow the makers they're using to get away with such
a crappy product.
As I said in my first post, I think you've been really unlucky and hope you can get it sorted out.
As a light hearted throw away...the company here in NZ I bought mine from currently has GB10SE's in SB,FM and Prestige[Japan]
in Natural and SB. Hollow Body Guitars - Hollow Body Guitars [just sayin'...no connection to this company]
Something funny going on up your way methinks.
Good luck.
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Originally Posted by SOLR
Of course, if it *is* a fake you probably can't count on much help from Ibanez to get the guitar exchanged or reimbursed...
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This is gonna be a big one...
Thank you very much guys for posting shots of your GB10SE's If anyone else has pictures to share that would be just fantastic.
They have been extremely enlightening. And clearly so that the differences between the quality of these guitars is like chalk and cheese.
The nuts and finishing on your Chinese models are very close to the made in Japan versions.
Now it makes sense to me why people in other threads on this forum were saying they had some great and beautifully made GB10SE guitars.
Anyone new to this thread please go back to the original post and have a look at the quality of the Ibanez GB10SE I was sent.
Ok so let’s dive right into this..
Ibanez themselves have completely ignored me across 3 different countries.. UK, USA and Japan when I emailed them all multiple times regarding the appalling quality of this guitar (Indonesian GB10SE)
But I did get a 2nd response from the management of George Benson. And here it is..
Well this is very interesting...
My first surprise is despite me emailing Ibanez in several different countries including the mothership in Japan half a dozen times I have not received a single response from a single person in the entire organisation, total mute silence to me the customer. But the response had to come through to me 2nd hand via the manager of George Benson himself in the form of a little somewhat insulting footnote.
Why is not a single one of them had the decency to reply to or contact and address me the customer directly? And up to now they still have not.
A customer that has spent around £10k on their gear?
This is yet more evidence that they do not care an iota about the people that actually spend their money with them.
Let me address their comments..
"Imperfections nothing out of expectation"
Imperfections? Normal? Are they serious!! In what world do you call huge colossal flaws normal imperfections? This Ibanez GB10SE is a £1,300 guitar.. supposedly made by one of the best guitar builders in the world.. and one of the greatests jazz guitarists whoever lived name slapped all over it... I have a cheap Squire Telecaster that in fact cost £375 that is far better made and finished in every single detail. And it too is made in Indonesia. How does Ibanez explain or justify this?
Answer: They don’t, and I had all this in my emails and the photos to them. They just ignore me and this entire topic completely. They right this all off as 'imperfections which are the norm'. On what planet?
The Ibanez GB10 is 3.6 time more expensive than this cheap Indonesian Telecaster, how is it that Ibanez accuse me of being overly fussy and expecting too much to expect a higher standard on a guitar that cost almost 4 times as much as a junk Tele made possibly in the same factory?
"Under a microscope"
... are they kidding? The appalling quality could be seen from a foot away, I just happened to take close ups.
Go take take a look again at the GB10 I bought.. Look at this so called half bone half brass nut.
Now look and the photos shared here by these other owners of what is meant to be the east same guitar but made in China. And the same price and the Indonesian model.
The nut alone is a completely different class of care and workmanship. But Ibanez want to tell me i am wrong to expect the same standard when I buy what is meant to be the exact same guitar?
Look at the other pics of these Chinese GB10SE models.. Great fretwork with no gaps on the ends where you can put your fingernails under and lift the dam guitar right up!.. nice gold finishing on the hardware and pickups.. binding done properly. It's a completely different guitar yet they are meant to be identical as they are the same spec and price.
Putting aside the Chinese and Indonesian GB10SE’s issue for a second..
Check out what Ibanez own official website has published as the GB10 and GB10SE specs where these guitars are advertised to the general public...
Can you spot the difference? No you can't because they are IDENTICAL down to literally every single letter. But one is the GB10 (Japan) and the other is the GB10SE (Indonesia) Why does Ibanez describe them in every single detail as the SAME on their own site when they are clearly not? And then scold and ridicule you for daring then to think they are the same? Or at least dam RESEMBLE the real thing?
Ibanez even lies about the pickups.. Both models list the exact same George Benson pickups.. but it is very plainly obvious that the GB10SE (Indonesian) is a cheaply made inferior copy of the real thing. Which is why everyone complains that GB10SE sounds cold and frigid.
Now before anyone says: “I should know better”.. as Ibanez themselves are NOW saying via George Benson’s personal management..(and I actually did know better)
But.. I wanted it from the horse's mouth. And here is the horse's mouth.
Even before buying the GB10SE I emailed Ibanez USA to ask if these guitars were the same. I got a reply from their headquarters saying they were the SAME GUITAR!!
Here is a screenshot of that conversation. (or my initial customer enquiry where I should have been told the truth.. instead i got this)
"They are indeed the same"
You see they sent an external link to the details and spec of this Indonesian GB10SE guitar.. and you see again it’s a letter for letter identical spec to the made in Japan GB10
GB10SE | Ibanez Wiki | Fandom
Sources: All the same horse's mouth of Ibanez of course..
• 2016 USA new product book (page 12)
• GB10SE product page, Ibanez USA, archived November 2016
• 2019 Europe catalog (page 46)
• GB10SE product page, Ibanez USA, archived July 2019
• GB10SE product page, Ibanez Europe, archived January 2020
• GB10SE product page, Ibanez China, archived January 2021
• GB10SE product page, Ibanez North & South America and Oceania, archived June 2022
So.. not only are these guitar models vastly not the same they differ HUGELY in quality of materials, workmanship, craftsmanship and components on every single aspect by a gaping chasm.
This means not only is Ibanez engaging in false advertising and misleading customers for quite a while, they are in fact doing nothing short of LYING. They are lying by listing the specs as identical and they lied about the same in writing to me in an official email prior to purchasing.
And now that I have highlighted this discrepancy with the detailed examination of this Indonesian GB10SE along with very clear photos that show the truth.. aside from completely ignoring all of this and me they now change their tune, send a 2nd hand note basically saying: I am a fool to expect them to be anywhere near the same!!
There are laws against this and it is completely illegal.
- Regulations that affect advertising & Advertising to consumers Laws
- The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations mean you cannot mislead consumers by, for example:
- including false or deceptive messages, leaving out important information.
I am afraid IBANEZ have been caught lying red handed and engaging in false advertising and deception both on their official website and in private emails while deliberately misleading potential and existing customers and here we have the proof.
All my life i have respected this company and held the name IBANEZ in very high esteem.. in fact the very first guitar I ever bought was an Ibanez RoadStar 2..
Here's a pic of me bringing it home on a train in 1986.
That lifelong image and respect is now entirely shot.
My respect and admiration for George Benson too who I have been listening to my entire life while collecting his entire discography has also taken a hammering, as my entire reason for buying and trying to buy these instruments is entirely based upon what he says about them and him personally constantly praising their quality.
George Benson can not be an idiot.. in his 40 year long relationship with these folks he absolutely HAS to know all about this stuff.. Yet he too completely ignores it too and as such in my book is party to the misleading lies.
For me a person's true character and integrity is far more important than them twanging some cool notes on a box with metal wires on.
I have met personally many of the greatest jazz musicians and musical artists from other genres in the world.
For me a person's true character and integrity is far more important than them sounds they make on their respective instruments.
I can also literally almost have any jazz guitar that I desire.. but what must come with that instrument is an energy of honesty, truth, integrity, goodwill, respect, good feeling and positive clean karma.
Certainly not these Ibanez shenanigans.
Moral: "Never attempt to know too much about people you truly admire, because they will invariably shatter the dream." - Maxx 2022
Ibanez GB10 Made in Japan order cancelled.
Last edited by Maxxx; 12-08-2022 at 04:18 AM.
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You seem to have bought the guitar from Thomann ?
In that case, is it still possible for you to return it to them (30 days)?
If so just return it for a full refund, and forget about Ibanez and all this story.
Find yourself another brand and guitar, get over it, play music and enjoy yourself.
Please don’t take this badly, I understand you are very upset.
But what are you waiting from Ibanez ? Do you want to sue them? Or that they admit and apologize?
It’s a huge company.. nowadaways alot can be said on the bad quality of products, even with what eat…
That’s what the George Benson staff is telling you.. I don’t think they are insulting at all… it looks like they are just very embarrassed
If I where you I would just take my distance with this bad experience , return the guitar. And go back to play music
You say you can get about any guitar you want. Then do that.
Again I do not want to be misleading, or to fuss you, but if you get stuck with this I think you are going too loose a great amount of time and energy.
Your thread is useful as we will now maybe be more advised before purchasing an Ibanez online…and anyway you can return an item when bought by internet..! This is how the world has become.. sadly. Sometimes it seems everything is just going crazy.. But that’s why we play and listen to music, to get ourselves away from this crazyness ?
Take it easy
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Originally Posted by Jx30510
No need to worry about me. I am as calm as it gets. But what I don't like is being fed utter bulls**t by scam artists, and ibanez is overflowing with it. And no this is not how the world should become.
Maybe you don't care about liars but I do. I have been involved in music, instruments and guitars very heavily all my life.. but you know what I care about far more?
Integrity and truth.
And yes the guitar came from Thomann in Germany, Ibanez's biggest official distributor in the whole of Europe. They too assured me that the guitar had been examined, checked and set up by their 'team of guitar experts.'
Later when questioned as to how their experts missed all of this the response is the same as Ibanez.. mute silence. No response whatsoever.
I find it pretty sad that people have come to accept these kinds of standards and behaviour as normal and acceptable. Even more so by one of the biggest players in the industry as all part of the 'game'. That is completely wrong.
I for one never will. And people such as yourself not caring is also very wrong. It is only by people calling them out that this kind of business model will ever change.
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If you’re referring to the photos I posted of my GB10SE I wonder if you saw the shot of the label which clearly says made in Indonesia?
I’m pleased with the instrument’s fit and finish and enjoy playing it.
You are having a bad time with your situation and can only agree with the poster above:
Push for an agreement with the distributor so you can be reimbursed and put the whole sorry episode behind you.
There are many quality makers offering fine instruments with similar specs that you will love to play and own.
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It’s sad but their QC is definitely not what it was. I got one of their 335’s the most expensive left handed one they sell. Very nice guitar, but the fretwork was nonexistent. Like, someone just forgot to do it. Had it done and it’s a very nice guitar, but, come on guys…
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Originally Posted by vintagelove
If you contact the Bensalem division in PA , you get good service but attempts to contact corporate fall on deaf ears.
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Originally Posted by jzucker
The 7th tuner on the AF207 is oversized so it takes a properly large string. I’d love to buy one for each of my other guitars, along with a few for future purchases. My dealer couldn’t get them, so I tried Hoshino here several times since I bought the AF over 20 years ago (most recently about 2 years ago to get one for my Eastman 810) and got bupkis in response.
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Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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Originally Posted by Maxxx
As to G.B. ... unless I'm confusing him with another George (Duke?) I understand he's got a royal a'hole reputation so I'm not surprised he can't be bothered to answer. Besides, why would have bother with the cheap clone if he himself probably gets the real deal for free, and when his reputation probably isn't affected at all if instruments he supposedly plays turn out to be lemons? Look at what Willie Nelson played
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Not sure why we are blaming George Benson here. George didn't sell the guitar, he didn't oversee quality control of the instrument. He's simply an endorser. They made a guitar model with his name on it and he had input into the design. He has no control over how each of the tens of thousands of variations are individually completed.
It's like buying a pair of defective basketball shoes and blaming Lebron James for a defect and expecting Lebron to pull his endorsement because one pair of his shoes had a factory defect.
Unfortunately, defects do happen. It's ironic because we all want hand made instruments instead of perfect CNC clones but then we complain when the occasional hand made instrument has a human-induced defect.
Your real issue should be with the dealer/distributor you bought it from IMO...
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Your real issue should be with the dealer/distributor you bought it from IMO...[/QUOTE]
I think this is spot on Jack - dealers are the front line and should take full responsibility. Ultimately, they are the ones pushing the marque/products and if they claim to have an inspection department they should stand by its standards ( or non-standards ). I have had good and bad experiences with all the big European online dealers and remain wary. Fortunately, at this stage, I (think ) that I have the five guitars that are 'keepers'. That said, I have long understood that there are often two levels of quality in eg hi-fi and domestic electrical products. Up market Sony or Panasonic - and the rest. Needless to say, pricing gives a good indication of what to expect. Perhaps if Ibanez marked out it's two levels a little more clearly eg 'Real' Ibanez models and the rest it would help the optimists among us!
David
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OTOH ...
A while back I bought a Japanese hand saw from a brand that isn't even that big of famous AFAIK (Suizan) but of which I already had a smaller precision saw. I wrote them with a usage question, remarked about how I was a bit surprised that mine had visible glue gobs and asked if the the blade attachment was supposed to be off the centre of the handle.
They offered lots of apologies and to send me a new saw or a reimbursement - while I bought through Amazon which surely didn't make it the most economically interesting sale for them. Simply because it didn't match the image they wanted to give as a Japanese brand.
Then again they might also have ignored me if they had a heavy-weight endorser who's name to put on their product, which would surely mean people would continue to buy.
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For a UK customer, Thomann will take the guitar back within a 30 day period, refund the price paid and pay the carriage costs up front so it is Thomann or Ibanez who lose.
The quoted specification is probably the same as the outsourced manufacturer was supposed to follow and may well do most of the time within the strict cost limits and available skill - especially when someone from Ibanez comes to inspect.
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Originally Posted by aquin43
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Originally Posted by jzucker
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I've got a Fender USA neck from 1979 that has the rosewood fingerboard glued on in a strange lopsided way that is not symmetrical when looking at the fingerboard and it basically looks like crap factory work, but the actual neck is one of my favorites and probably is my favorite out of all the Fenders or copies necks that I've played.
The Ibanez's that I've had have all been top notch, there was a Japan made Sen Ash bolt on neck LP with Super 70s pickups that I traded for a Fender, and that guitar was great and I still wish I had it, then there was a Japan made 80s Ibanez Roadster and a 80s Japan made Ibanez Semi Acoustic, all great guitars in their own way and then I had borrowed access to an Ibanez 90s/2000s Korean made low end Ibanez with a plywood body and the pickups were the worst that I've heard, but that was the cheapest Ibanez on offer I think.
I think Hoshino is pretty good with their Ibanez brand in general, and there are other great Japanese guitars like Grecos from Kanda Shokai etc, older Grecos have Maxon made pickups like the Dry-Z which are similar to older Maxon made Ibanez Super 58s.
Emailing corporate offices about some guitar problem probably gets done by a lot of people everyday so they would be too busy to handle all of that I would think, just return the guitar to where it was bought.
George Benson can't inspect every GB10 coming off the line, and sometimes crap happens so that's what the return system is for.
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Ibanez is a great company, and even the low end jazzboxes can allow not fortunate musicians or beginners to have access to very honest and well built instruments at low prices
I see 90% of happy reviews from customers, and let’s be honest this is one of the first rant thread for Ibanez I see. Let’s talk about Gibson or Fender…
Moreover, I find completely stupid to write to the George Benson team to have explanations on a signature guitar. Call David Gilmour because your Fender signature custom shop guitar is not to your expetations?
I ap very suprised the Benson management even replied, they have nothing to do with the built of a guitar.. and like said above , maybe should Benson pay a guy to inspect every signature GB, in every factory, every country?
it’s just …
And what I find really nasty is to read in a post above that George Benson « has got a royal a..hole reputation « ..!??
I’m very suprised nobody reacted to this..
And « people like you that don’t care is very wrong ».. yeah maybe I shouldn’t have cared with your thread and replied to try to give you a bit of positivé advice?
This thread is going nowhere. just return the guitar and give us a break. I’m done with this one
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Other thoughts on ibanez quality ...
I've owned 3 indonesian ibanez instruments. From their bass lineup, the indonesian instruments are positioned in between the chinese and japanese instruments. With the Gary Willis bass, the japanese instruments have gone up in price to the point of retailing for approximately $4500. Some years back, they introduced a chinese version made from basswood instead of ash. I bought one for $799 and it was a very shoddily constructed instrument with a bad/noisy preamp, sloppy wiring, cheap pickups and generally bad sound.
When they bridged the gap by offering the indonesian version. What they have done with some of their indonesian line is to use hardware and electronics from the japanese line (in some cases USA pickups).
I bought one for $1500 and when I received it, the neck had a reverse bow and on a fretless, this is the kiss of death. Completely useless and buzzed like a sitar. I returned for a refund. An unusually high percentage of folks have posted about similar issues with that model.
I bought another indonesian instrument EHB1505 last year that was pretty good. It needed a fret level and there were some loose frets. Again, it was in the $1200-$1500 price range. Once the frets were tapped in and leveled it was a very good instrument.
I wonder about the logic of Ibanez with confusing the market with chinese, indonesian and japanese versions of their instruments without a clear delineation of quality the way gibson has done with their epiphone line. It's sometimes very hard to determine on reverb or ebay which product line an instrument is based on the photos.
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Originally Posted by jzucker
Originally Posted by jzucker
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update, the EHB1505 ibanez I bought last year now buzzes badly again (change of seasons in midwest). I now am of the thought that the indonesian instruments use very unseasoned wood because this is 3 for 3 with neck issues on the indonesian instruments.
Won't be buying another one. They look good in photos and use better hardware than the chinese instruments but the chinese versions seem to be better overall quality in terms of wood and workmanship.
It's sad that a company like ibanez has blundered into such a stupid marketing strategy where they sell 3 different levels of instruments manufactured in china, indonesia and japan without clear delineation by brand. I can't help but think this may contribute to their downfall. I see other japanese companies like deviser (with the korean and phillipine made models) doing the same thing. I'm not a marketing expert but it really seems like a stupid decision to me...
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Originally Posted by RJVB
Originally Posted by jzucker
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Originally Posted by John A.
Please tell me where this instrument was made.
And please tell me how someone who isn't an ibanez expert can tell where this was made?
Please Recommend Me Some Beginner Solos/Heads to...
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