Sunday Test - Best jazz sound

[kris]

<Hej kris, where do you buy your strings? I have not seen them at Thomann, if they are there I must have missed them. Where did you get yours?

I got it in music shop in Poland.
https://muzyczny.pl/172096_GHS-Custo...ht-016056.html

[0zoro]

Kris, we have all heard how your tone was affected, how do those Martino strings affect your playing time? I have observed that thicker strings have reduced my playing time as my hands are simple not strong enough. What are your observations?

[kris]

Kris, we have all heard how your tone was affected, how do those Martino strings affect your playing time? I have observed that thicker strings have reduced my playing time as my hands are simple not strong enough. What are your observations?

I like to play hard strings. Such strings are for playing jazz.
You have to get used to such strings ...Surely thin strings are more comfortable and it is easier to catch chords.
You have to experiment with the height of the bridge to improve the comfort of playing.

[Christian Miller]

Without wanting to patronise anyone but it’s crazy how many people don’t set their guitars up appropriately when going up a string gauge. get friendly with your truss rod and heavy strings shouldn’t be too much of an impediment. If they feel tough to play you are probably feeling excessive neck relief from the neck bowing due to string tension. Tighten the rod and it will feel totally different. Usually about a quarter turn per string gauge.

You can get get them lower too, because they wiggle around less.

could get a luthier to do it, but this is not a hard thing to do yourself provided the instrument is sound.

Also secret weapon for jazzers like Peter Bernstein and Adam Rogers - heavy top, light bottom.

[kris]

Of course, the quality of the guitar frets also matters - the so-called fret works.
The luthier has fitted me with new frets so that I can precisely adjust the tension of the neck and the height of the bridge.

[0zoro]

Without wanting to patronise anyone but it’s crazy how many people don’t set their guitars up appropriately when going up a string gauge. get friendly with your truss rod and heavy strings shouldn’t be too much of an impediment. If they feel tough to play you are probably feeling excessive neck relief from the neck bowing due to string tension. Tighten the rod and it will feel totally different. Usually about a quarter turn per string gauge.

You can get get them lower too, because they wiggle around less.

could get a luthier to do it, but this is not a hard thing to do yourself provided the instrument is sound.

Also secret weapon for jazzers like Peter Bernstein and Adam Rogers - heavy top, light bottom.

I think one must take into consideration 76 year old fingers, they do make a difference as well.

[Christian Miller]

Of course, the quality of the guitar frets also matters - the so-called fret works.
The luthier has fitted me with new frets so that I can precisely adjust the tension of the neck and the height of the bridge.

100%

[Christian Miller]

I think one must take into consideration 76 year old fingers, they do make a difference as well.

For sure - but I don’t think people always realise that heavy strings need not be hard to play necessarily.

FWIW I find most jazz boxes at big box retailers completely unplayable - they stick on a set of d’addario chromes and hope for the best. No surprise no one ever buys archtops from these places. must really put people off.

My Gibson (!) ES 335 arrived with gauge .10 strings and really hard to play! High action and too much relief. A little setting up and it plays like butter with a .11 set and a .12 top. I’d happily go heavier but I want to keep this as a versatile guitar.

I wonder if this isn’t one of the big reason Gibson gets so much grief online, terrible factory set ups. First impressions are bad and then you notice other QC issues. (Not on mine I’m pleased to say.)

sometimes I pick up other players guitars and think ‘how can you play that?’ Sometimes pros let things slip over years because and get used to it and don’t have time to take their main box into a luthier until it develops an issue. Maybe they are scared of making adjustments or maybe they don’t notice. Sometimes it’s a bit of a masochistic, or even macho vibe ‘I suffer for my art!’

I think some think me a wimp but I’ve had too many twinges and things to be macho about set ups. I’d rather not encourage arthritis. I like a guitar that plays well. Which is funny because I’ve tended to be a hard, heavy right hand player.

One great London player once said when trying one of mine ‘that guitar is beautifully set up’ and I said ‘thanks.’ I tweak. I think I was running .13s on that, at one point I had a .15 top.

[bluejaybill]

(Snip)


sometimes I pick up other players guitars and think ‘how can you play that?’ Sometimes pros let things slip over years because and get used to it and don’t have time to take their main box into a luthier until it develops an issue. Maybe they are scared of making adjustments or maybe they don’t notice. Sometimes it’s a bit of a masochistic, or even macho vibe ‘I suffer for my art!’

Yes, I find that my guitars gradually slip into higher action, and then I take them in and am astounded when I get them back!

I really need to learn how to set proper relief, that's where it all starts. If you get that right, you can get everything else right (except bad frets!).

You said earlier that Peter Bernstein uses heavier top and lighter bottom, do you know what those gauges are?

[Peter C]

Nice playing. Sounds like a hollow body humbucker with the tone rolled off quite a bit. Fat flatwounds. Low action.

Edit: ok, so wrong about the body type. Teles are a mystery to me

[kris]

I often ask myself why Pat Martino played such strings?
The answer is probably not difficult ... :-)
These strings suited his style very well - long melody lines / little chord playing /.
Also, Pat was playing Sadowsky guitars recently and it wasn't typical hollow-body guitar.
Everything was related to each other: playing style, strings, guitar, the effect was impressive.

[Peter C]

Why heavy strings?
Pat Martino: To Renew A Life In Jazz article @ All About Jazz

[Christian Miller]

Yes, I find that my guitars gradually slip into higher action, and then I take them in and am astounded when I get them back!

I really need to learn how to set proper relief, that's where it all starts. If you get that right, you can get everything else right (except bad frets!).

You said earlier that Peter Bernstein uses heavier top and lighter bottom, do you know what those gauges are?

Much discussion was had on JGO at one point a few years back but I can't find it anywhere. Anyone?

John Pearse 14-52 is what I found. Which would be a .12 set with a heavier top, but I couldn't tell you offhand what the B and G string gauges are. I don't know if he has a wound G or not (I assume so because most archtop bridges are designed for them)

So the formula for me that works well, is take a set that you find comfortable and then go up a couple of gauges on the plains. So if you have a .11 set, use .13 and .16/.17 as the top two. This might seem weird but it actually balances the tension across the neck and makes the guitar very playable while getting rid of that 'twanginess' with the top strings.

You can order these separately as Peter does which works out probably quite cheap in bulk, or buy Thomastik Infeld strings which use a similar gauging (which are expensive but last a long time). For example their .12 bebop strings are

12 16 20 28 36 50

As compared to the .12 D'addario Chromes set which is
12 16 24 32 42 52

It's a big difference in the middle four strings. By lightening those off you have more comfort in fretting chords. D'addarios can be made to play well though... Mak of Mak's Guitars (archtop specialist dealer in London) sets up his guitars with D'Addarios and they play like silk... so it's not maybe a super big deal, but I have a preference for this type of set up.

Adam Rogers uses
13 16 18 28 38 49
on his ES335

I assume that's a plain G. I think that's a standard .11 'Jazz Rock' set from D'addario with the procedure I described above (up two gauges on the E and B).

YES I AM A STRING NERD lol.

[Peter C]

Yo bro, that Thomastik Bebop 12 set has a plain G!

"Adam Rogers uses 13 16 18 28 38 49". That's nuts, but it works for him, so he wins.

(-Reformed string nerd)

[Christian Miller]

Yo bro, that Thomastik Bebop 12 set has a plain G!

"Adam Rogers uses 13 16 18 28 38 49". That's nuts, but it works for him, so he wins.

(-Reformed string nerd)

oh yeah… I can’t use .12 ti bebops on my wooden bridge es175 because of that. Intonation is all over the place. I remember now.

What do I have on my guitar now I wonder? No idea.

[Irishmuso]

What do I have on my guitar now I wonder? No idea.

We may have to revoke your 'string-nerd' membership

[rpjazzguitar]

I use 11 13 16 24 32 42 on my Comins GCS-1. That's a set of 9s, throw away the 9 and buy a 13.
.
Gives the action a softer feel while not sounding too tinny in the upper register of the high E.

I don't like a lot of lows in my sound. I don't know if the thickness of the low strings makes that much difference, but if it did, it would be okay with me.

[kris]

I played a jam session today and played everything on my Tele with thick strings, I have to say the sound was fat and very clear.
Other guitarists at jam sessions were surprised that I play such thick strings.

[Marinero]

Hi, K,
You prove an important point that I have been saying for years. . . namely, an electric guitar is a completely different instrument than a purely acoustic guitar whose personality is a combination of build design, tone woods, and mastery of the luthier. Its sound is created by a combination of pickups, amplifier settings, strings, and the level of musicianship of the player. I played with a guitarist in the 60's who played a Fender Jazzmaster through a Twin Reverb amplifier. He had one of the fattest sounds playing Jazz of anyone I knew from the neighborhood at the time. He also had a great punchy R@B sound from that same instrument. So, your point is well-taken.
Marinero

P.S. I enjoyed the chords between 1:21-1:25 and your stylistic approach to the music allowing it to breathe naturally. M

[kris]

Hi, K,
You prove an important point that I have been saying for years. . . namely, an electric guitar is a completely different instrument than a purely acoustic guitar whose personality is a combination of build design, tone woods, and mastery of the luthier. Its sound is created by a combination of pickups, amplifier settings, strings, and the level of musicianship of the player. I played with a guitarist in the 60's who played a Fender Jazzmaster through a Twin Reverb amplifier. He had one of the fattest sounds playing Jazz of anyone I knew from the neighborhood at the time. He also had a great punchy R@B sound from that same instrument. So, your point is well-taken.
Marinero

P.S. I enjoyed the chords between 1:21-1:25 and your stylistic approach to the music allowing it to breathe naturally. M

Thank you Marinero,
I really appreciate your comments.
Jazzingly
Kris