School Me on Classical Guitars

[markesquire]

I mostly play electric. I have a Gibson SJ-200 steel string that I like for loud strumming, though I don’t play it much. I now have young kids and have considered getting a small body acoustic for simple, quiet, finger style music at bedtime.

I’ve never really looked into classical guitars because I don’t particularly like Spanish or classical guitar music. But I was recently in a guitar store and picked up a classical and was really impressed. I really like how the upper strings were warm instead of overly bright and steely. It almost sounded like an electrified jazz archtop sound, but acoustic.

If I were to buy a classical with a budget around $1k, what should I know first, which models should I consider, etc.? It looks like the Cordoba C10 is highly recommended in that ballpark. Also, are there particular strings or setup ideas to get more of that warm faux electrified jazz sound instead of the ultra-Latin nylon-string-popping sound?

[mr quick]

Without having tried that particular guitar, it seems like a solid option. It has the right solid woods and good reviews.
You don't have to buy a Spanish-made guitar, but I understand why one might want to. My classical guitar is a Japanese Ibanez-branded guitar from presumably the mid-1970s or early 1980s. It has the right woods too - cedar and rosewood - and only cost $20 at a thrift store. New tuners, oil and polish, and a repaired crack in the back/side joint later, it's my go-to guitar and has won blind tests sent to my most trusted guitar friend up against guitars well over $1000.
I am still only speculating, but if I follow through, my next classical will likely be Chinese-made (Altamira Sete Cordas).

When it comes to strings, the short answer is that you should probably stick to regular nylon treble sets. The major other option is carbon/composite sets which are harder and more brilliant.

If you want some inspiration, go listen to Ralph Towner, in particular the album called "Solo Concert". That album really shows what great technique and a jazz sensibilty can create.

I find that the classical guitar is much more revealling than its steel-string siblings. As in, to make the guitar really shine, you should be mindful of your technique. I think that a lot of electric players "just play" the guitar, which you really can't get away with on the classical because there's no effects or amplification to hide behind. Your input is the output.

[jazzkritter]

Good advice from MrQuick.
Two thoughts: one is the New World line that Californian Luther Kenny
Hill sells. They are made in China, but Kenny spent great efforts over there to be sure of the quality. I had one for I think two years, did recitals with it and it did sound and play quite nicely. (Graduated to a Hill Signature, sry nice double top.)
Second is the classical guitar string rabbit hole). There are a good number of string makers in the world, and most are touting some special uniqueness. It drives a lot of people into loops of try this try that. So for a start I recommend if the set sounds good to you, just play)
BTW Kenny Hill was a consultant to Cordoba, so they do have good lineage.
have fun!
jk

[Jimmy blue note]

For many players I've met, going from steel to nylon means getting used to a different scale, different feel, higher action, wider string spacing and different response from hitting the strings.
Not even mentioning the smaller sized body that is the norm with classicals.
I always have them keep the Yamaha NCX series in mind. The NCX 1 is the most affordable and has a narrower neck, electronics, and a cutaway. It's a versatile guitar especially transitioning from the steel string world.

Of course get out there and try out as many as you can because it's going to be different. And if you can find a Yamaha NCX guitar, give it a spin. THere aren't a lot of 'hybrid' transitional guitars on the market and I've found this to be a really nice reliable and great sounding acoustic/electric guitar.

[Jimmy Mack]

Yes, great info above. I myself just went through the process of upgrading to a serious new classical. I tried quite a few. I like cedar tops and rosewood body woods. The more expensive models will have solid woods , not laminates, and that is a big factor in the acoustic tone.
I settled on a Kremona Solea with full scale and neck width. The narrower necks were not conducive to my fingerpicking, too cramped!
I played a few Cordobas, but found that several of them had the same dead note on the 10th fret, 1st string. I owned a C10 but returned it. Another , more expensive model had the same exact problem. And then a few more! I did find one that did not have that problem, so check thoroughly before buying. At GC, the guys changed the strings for me so I could make a real tonal evaluation, which helps if needed. Don't let them talk you into something because of a dead note.
The hybrids are great. Fun too. I can see myself getting one in addition to mine. Nylon treble strings. Many to choose from.
Good luck and have fun looking.

[JohanAbrandt]

For many players I've met, going from steel to nylon means getting used to a different scale, different feel, higher action, wider string spacing and different response from hitting the strings.
Not even mentioning the smaller sized body that is the norm with classicals.
I always have them keep the Yamaha NCX series in mind. The NCX 1 is the most affordable and has a narrower neck, electronics, and a cutaway. It's a versatile guitar especially transitioning from the steel string world.

Of course get out there and try out as many as you can because it's going to be different. And if you can find a Yamaha NCX guitar, give it a spin. THere aren't a lot of 'hybrid' transitional guitars on the market and I've found this to be a really nice reliable and great sounding acoustic/electric guitar.

Tim Lerch had some praise for the NTX,

[j4zz]

Enjoying this thread about nylon string classical guitars. I do not play classical, but have had this one for years and used it for all types of music (but classical )

It's an early Ovation classical, but has a long history. At one point it was damaged and insurance paid for a rebuild. A local luthier put a whole new spruce top in it. New bracing and everything. He commented that the original Ovation build was a bit rough and that it would sound better than it ever did. Yeah - he was so right, it does.

[gitman]

You should "school" yourself in all things classical guitar ! This means : go out and play as many different types as possible, within and out of your budget. In the world of the steelstring flattop guitar we have a very large variety of sizes, shapes and other -more or less important- details but when we're looking at the nylonstring guitar these differences and variable are less numerous , especially in the lower priced segment - You won't find a double-top guitar for under 2 /2.5 grand. So, you have the neck shape and size, flat/curved fingerboard, the option of a cutaway, sometimes a choice between a spruce and a cedar top and that's about it, roughly. Looking at what's available then it's pretty clear that only the chinese-made guitars offer the most options and give you the most guitar for your money. Wether you choose Yamaha, Hill, Cordoba (my choice) etc. is a matter of personal preference, the basic quality is the same when you sort out the occasional lemon.
Re the TONE : Towner always played high class instruments but when you compare his tone today with what he sounded like 20, 30, 40 years ago you will notice that
it improved immensely : he worked on his technique constantly so he was able to get the most out of his guitars.
Romero Lubambo : he plays brazilian music where the emphasis lies on rhythmic and harmonic complexity - the SINGLE note is not as important. The tone he gets is not particularly pleasing (for my ears) but the music is wonderful !
Earl Klugh : very good right hand technique, so clean and even...
Gene Bertoncini : excellent jazzer but his tone is underwhelming, sorry ....
Yamandu Costa : fabulous all the way !
Marcin Dylla : a Master ...

Developing TONE (and decent volume) on the nylonstring guitar takes just as long as on any other type of guitar that is played without electronic enhancement.




The sound and feel of the different guitars will not be clearly

[ronjazz]

The Cordoba GK Negra (rosewood back and sides) is a "flamenco" style guitar with a pickup and a cutaway, a nice guitar for all kinds of classical/flamenco/bossa music, and lists at around $750. Flamenco builds are somewhat lighter than classical, with lower action and a faster response, making them a bit more versatile for jazz and Latin players. As for classical guitars without pickups or cutaways, Cordoba, Rodriguez and Yamaha make decent ones in your price range. Concert-quality instruments start at $4000 and go up as high as you can afford; my Lester Devoe concert flamenco guitars were $5K in 1994, last I saw, they were $8400!

[RJVB]

I settled on a Kremona Solea with full scale and neck width. The narrower necks were not conducive to my fingerpicking, too cramped!
I played a few Cordobas, but found that several of them had the same dead note on the 10th fret, 1st string. I owned a C10 but returned it. Another , more expensive model had the same exact problem. And then a few more!

That's be a wolf tone, a frequency that's (too) close to one of the instrument's eigen frequencies. As a result, the energy is absorbed by the instrument instead of being used to produce sound. This can be a result of how the top is tuned, so it's not surprising to find the same wolf at the same place in factory-built instruments.

Kremona; I've been ogling their Lulu Reinhardt signature model. There are 2 in fact, both nylon stringers and IIRC one with a wider neck. Should be in the OP's price range, here in Europe at least.
Another nylon stringer I'm attracted to is Dowina's Bona Vida Hybrid, a very sexy parlor in the same price range. Those small guitars pack a lot of (spicy) punch.

Fortunately my converted resonator is a lot of fun to play too, despite having the narrowest neck of my little fleet.

[2bornot2bop]

This is my baby. All solid woods, handmade, by a former guitar maker who used to post his builds on eBay. Not bad for $850.

I’ve owned an Alhambra 9p, which was made in Spain and was a very good guitar. I’d recommend keeping your eye on the used market for there are solid buys to be found.

[Marinero]

Hi, M,
Don''t buy new . . . buy used for your first CG. You'll get a higher grade guitar for less money. Don't buy a laminate. Buy an all-wood guitar because as you progress, you'll be disappointed with a laminate's compromised/dead sound. Determine if you want Cedar or Spruce based on your ears. 1K will get you a good, solid used wood guitar. Check out Esteve guitars from Spain. They have a great reputation and are built, largely, with traditional Spanish bracing. Good luck!
Marinero

[balthazar]

Hi Markesquire,

Only solid tops for real classical guitars.
Like 2bornnot2bop, I also play an Alhambra.
I only tried European guitars and you can't go wrong with Alhambra, Cuenca, Esteve or Kremona.

And about strings, I use Augustine Paragon Blue.

[bohemian46]

The Kremona line is very good and modestly priced.

[jim777]

I don't know much about classicals but a friend has a Kenny Hill and it is really lovely sounding.

[Flat]

+1 on the offshore Kenny Hill guitars. Mine is from when Hill made his offshore guitars in Paracho, Mexico, before he moved operations to China. A couple things I like about it are a slightly more narrow nut width and a slightly faster neck than you find on most "real" classicals. And it has a nice cutaway. Not things a true classical player would prefer, but they work well for modestly-skilled me. Your interests might be different. Good luck in your quest.

[Cavalier]

If you plug in at all I'd suggest Ovation. The current offering is good with a cutaway, 12 fret neck, 1 3/4" nut. Used ones cover a range of neck sizes and top woods and bowl depths.
Pure acoustic I like my old alpine spruce euro guitars.
I also second the Kremona guitars, they perform well above their price point.
Used Takamines are a good performer plugged in as well.

[mr quick]

I completely forgot to mention crossover guitars in my initial response. Like has already been mentioned, something like the Yamaha NTX1. My personal favorite in crossovers is the Furch GNc-2cw. I really want one. Unparallelled playability, but crossovers typically can't quite produce the rich timbre of a regular classical guitar.

[RJVB]

I think the Eastman Cabaret (Buscarino/JB 2020) would qualify as a crossover, and from what I've heard it's at least as rich in timbre as a regular CG - and in a way I prefer.

Of course it's also 3x over the OP's budget...

[Woody Sound]

There are a few basic variables to consider. Maybe I missed it, but do you want a cutaway? Acoustic, electric, both? Standard wide classical neck, or narrower "crossover" neck (usually 1-7/8")? Full depth body, or a little thinner?

As far as strings go, I think the harder tension ones will get you the sound you want. Try D'Addario Pro-Arte hard tension. They also make an extra hard tension. You might also want to try Savarez. They have a less bright sound, and the trebles have a unique feel, more like gut than the usual fishing line nylon feel.

[RJVB]

You might also want to try Savarez. They have a less bright sound, and the trebles have a unique feel, more like gut than the usual fishing line nylon feel.

Do you mean Aquila nylgut? I've only tried the Savarez Alliance trebles, and they're about as fishy line (fishing liny?) and metallically bright as they come.

The best online resource for learning about classical guitars and the wealth of strings that exist for them is the Delcamp classical guitar forum.

[jaco]

I had a Kenny Hill Signature that I sold. I'm getting another one, great guitars

[Woody Sound]

I posted this once before, my current nylons. 2nd from right, the Carvin is awesome for nylon jazz.

[Woody Sound]

Do you mean Aquila nylgut? I've only tried the Savarez Alliance trebles, and they're about as fishy line (fishing liny?) and metallically bright as they come.

Hmm, the Savarez trebles that I've used (it's been years now) had a more rough texture similar to gut. I know they make a bunch of different kinds. Maybe you had the wound trebles?

[Woody Sound]

This is my baby. All solid woods, handmade, by a former guitar maker who used to post his builds on eBay. Not bad for $850.

I’ve owned an Alhambra 9p, which was made in Spain and was a very good guitar. I’d recommend keeping your eye on the used market for there are solid buys to be found.

What kind of wood is that, it's beautiful.