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Hi everyone! First post here so please be gentle
I started learning Jazz a few months ago. Still learning harmony and basic standards. Currently I play with my Strat that I used for playing Blues but I am in the market for some Jazz gear.
I really love that Martin Taylor Artistry tone and also that early Benson punchier tone. My questions is - is there any guitar & amp combination that would allow me to have that acoustic to heavy and punchy tone range?
Hope my question makes sense.
Thanks in advance!
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06-04-2022 09:07 AM
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Welcome to the forum.
Heavy gauge flatwound strings through a neck pickup should get you near your destination regardless of the guitar you choose.
Keep in mind that this is a gear forum, so you'll often get really detailed and esoteric answers to some questions that aren't so tough to answer.
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If you have a Strat, you already have jazz gear.
Great jazz has been played on a Strat or similar. Check out Lorne Lofsky. Mike Stern (who played a Strat with Miles Davis).
I've heard Benson on several different guitars. To me, he always sounds like Benson.
That's not to say that all guitars sound the same. But, when you're after somebody's sound, you may find out that even the exact same gear doesn't necessarily get you there.
Good luck!
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Welcome, Dave!
Lots of "new to jazz, what gear do I buy?" posts here, so look around for other ideas!
That being said, the others have answered your question (for now): use what you already have!
Of course, a strat will not sound like an "acoustic/archtop" guitar, but for now, I'd recommend continuing your learning process with a good teacher; play with others; listen to a lot of jazz; and learn more about your gear preferences as you go! [If you bought something today, you will want something different in a year, so just wait!]
Chris is one of my favorite players, and he happens to play a strat, too:
Enjoy!
Marc
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If you like the benson tones try an Ibanez GB. Great instruments and a variety for every budget.
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Really? If you like benson you should try an Ibanez GB ?
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Just because it is obvious to you, doesnt mean it is to the OP.
Originally Posted by Marcel_A
Obviously…
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When I was starting out as a young player in the very early 80's I bought an original issue Ibanez GB10 in the hope that I could cop that Benson sound he got on Weekend in LA and Breezin' .... Ha, BIG surprise : it didn't work out as planned ! Fast forward to 2021 : I bought a GB15 model (practically the same as the GB10 but with only one pickup) and NOW I'm able to approximate this tone. Somewhat....
I've been through just about every type of electric guitar (no LesPaul) and played countless Jazz/Pitband/Danceband gigs with my '93 Warmoth Tele, my go-to archtop these days is a lam-top Trenier 16" and the one important lesson I learned over the past 40+ years is that the tone starts in your head and your fingers must learn to get it out of the instrument. A well set-up guitar that feels comfortable on your body helps a great deal, looks play a role also but there's no way around practice, practice, practice ......
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sound is in your fingers and in your mind, it's your sound, no one will sound like you.
If I go versatile jazz , my choice will be a kind of 335.
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Sounds to me you like the sound of a fully hollow guitar - less sustain, more punch. Solid bodies don’t do that, and neither really do semis. Now, Martin is a brighter, open tone from roundwounds, while Benson is a little more mix rangey and punchy (flats) but I think a decent archtop would get you in the ball park for either.
No idea what your budget is, but obvious mid range (1-2k) choices would include Eastman or the Ibanez George Benson models.
Amp wise there’s basically two jazz amp paradigms: fender or Polytone. I associate early Benson more with Fender and later more with clean Polytone style tones.
Fender amps are generally good for jazz; but you may need to mod. I like Fender Hot Rod type amps (Benson has a signature model iirc) but the only problem is they are apparently a bit questionable in terms of build and long term reliability. But whenever I’ve played one I’ve found it great for gigging. I actually own a Fender Princeton Reverb which is nice but pricier and less headroom and is giggable for jazz with a better speaker.
Henriksen is a very good take on the Polytone concept. These things are great.
Martins a little different because he aims for a more acoustic sound and plugs direct into a PA. An AER would be a similar sort of thing.
If that gear is too pricey (around 2-3k for a guitar and amp) there are plenty of cheaper options, but these are options I would be very happy gigging with.
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Of course changing your gear won’t make you sound like a jazz guitarist. That is something you can work on on any guitar as others have said.
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Taste, feeling plus hard work. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Guitars, which are signed by well-known guitarists- themselves do not play in the style and sound of a guitarist.
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that said if you get a Selmer Macaferri you can play whatever you want and it will still sound like bloody Django Originally Posted by kris
Taste, feeling plus hard work.
Guitars, which are signed by well-known guitarists- themselves do not play in the style and sound of a guitarist.
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+1... Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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You definitely don't need more than a strat to play jazz (said the guy with a strat and two other electric guitars that he uses more for jazz than the strat). This is known as the GAS variant of Epimenides' paradox.
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Originally Posted by Dave139
Hi everyone! First post here so please be gentle
I started learning Jazz a few months ago. Still learning harmony and basic standards. Currently I play with my Strat that I used for playing Blues but I am in the market for some Jazz gear.
I really love that Martin Taylor Artistry tone and also that early Benson punchier tone. My questions is - is there any guitar & amp combination that would allow me to have that acoustic to heavy and punchy tone range?
Hope my question makes sense.
Thanks in advance!
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Certainly you can play jazz on a strat, but somehow whenever I pick up mine I am playing blues! Originally Posted by John A.
As a beginner, I think that overcoming the basic tendencies of a guitar are more difficult, to get a good jazz tone it helps to start with a guitar that gets you part of the way there at least.
Even as an experienced player, I recently picked up a couple of arch tops, and suddenly getting the jazz sounds I wanted was a lot easier. Yes, I can play jazz on a telecaster or a Les Paul, but why fight the inherent tendencies of the instrument? Plus you need to set them up with heavier strings, maybe flat wounds, rendering them less effective at what they do best.
So I would be looking more at the Eastman, Ibanez's etc for that sound. Assuming the OP can afford one.
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I highly appreciate everyone who took the time to comment on this thread. Thanks everyone! It really helped me.
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This is what I would do.
I would endlessly obsess on different guitars, and keep waiting until I find a decent price on a used guitar. That is how I do things.
Until that guitar shows up, I would try and tweak the things I have.
If I was going to play jazz on a strat, I would change out the pick ups for something with a little fatter tone, perhaps a hotter pickup. Fralin makes some excellent pickups. I also really dig Lollar.
While I put together the money for a PU swap, I would try some pedals. For example a compressor with a mix/blend knob, and tone, might help you get a little warm punch.
Depending on the amp you are using, an AITB type pedal could also help.
When I was starting to get serious about Jazz, I was playing a tele and, then a PRS swamp ash special.
I still have the same PRS and I just started using it again as my main guitar. At one point I did swap out the PUs for Lollars. I was surprised by how well it does a “jazz tone”.
I always thought, that particular PRS was more like a tele then say a strat, but others feel like it is more of a strat type guitar.
Thus, we are back to the strat issue... any guitar can play jazz. However, it is enjoyable to be able to endlessly search for the “right” guitar. I basically have completed my guitar collection and I miss that search.
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Yea.. yea... you can play anything on anything. And the guitar you're holding certainly doesn't keep you from learning the jazz vocabulary. Thing is, per CM's post above, a solid body doesn't sound like a hollow body guitar. And a hollow archtop doesn't sound like a flat top. And it's not subtle. You may find certain guitars inspire you more than others for certain kinds of music.
If I were going to play everything (blues, rock, fusion, jazz) on one guitar I would go with a small body, shallow depth hollow guitar. Gibson 330 (not a 335 semi-hollow) is the expensive example. I play an inexpensive Korean D'Angelico EX-SS (small block version) and like it quite a lot. I put the George Benson models I see in this category. Brighter. Few feedback issues. Moves a bit away from solid body in terms of harmonic content, attack, and decay. You may find you much prefer it for blues if volume levels don't cause feedback.
Still.. for jazz I prefer the traditional full size archtop. Carved spruce top with a good pickup if you can get it. 16" - 17" bout and 3" (or so) depth being more or less standard because history and Gibson and because that's what works. Pickup would be a good humbucker. Like an Armstrong hand wound or Gibson Classic 57 though there are several good ones (and bad ones) out there. There is also a difference between vintage and new but that's a rabbit hole to be explored when you're old with time and money on your hands.
What to buy? Depends on how much money you're looking to spend and where you live. Big cities have more options.
As for an amp, I would go electronic. Line 6 offers more than you'll ever need to explore all amp tones and EQ settings.
Finally.. gear is fun. It's part of the hobby. You don't have to be minimalist or cost optimized or have one thing that does everything. You can enjoy many different guitars and amps in all the musical niches you're drawn to. It's a great part of the journey.
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I have played jazz gigs on a Strat (I still have a Strat and a Les Paul in my toolbox) and I have played jazz on a Selmer style guitar (I have 2 of those in my toolbox and I sometimes want to sound like Django). I have a classical in the toolbox and while it is somewhat limited by it's non-cut body with a 12th fret neck join, I can play jazz on it just fine.
But archtop guitars are really the best tool for jazz (I have 10 of those in the toolbox, and why not? I like them). There are a lot of choices in every price range. Buy one that you can afford which inspires your playing. You will know which guitar inspires your playing when you play it.
Amps? There is the tube amp vs. solid-state question to answer. It is a matter of taste. I like both and have a tube amp along with 3 solid-state amps.
I am a fan of Joe Pass and Wes Montgomery, so for me a Gibson 175 or L-5 strung with flatwounds get's me the inspiration that I need. You may need something different. Happy hunting and welcome to the endless quest for tone.
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I think the main message here is to not let the guitar you have hold you back from learning the jazz language and vocabulary. You can find a lot of examples of jazz being played on Stratocasters on YouTube. Chris Crocco has already been mentioned and he's excellent; Nir Felder is also worth a mention as he plays primarily on an MIM Stratocaster.
Welcome to the forum and welcome to playing jazz!
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Or just get yourself a cheap Ibanez hollow to see if you're okay with playing the hollow jazz box.
The hollow body guitar is a completely different world.
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Seems there's a Catch 22 when it comes to archtops. Low end archtops can sound pretty bad. While most of the guitars that play and sound good are too expensive for those that should be playing them. And as the guitar player advances, music doesn't pay well enough to upgrade to the next level. Originally Posted by kris
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This is partly true. Originally Posted by Spook410
Arch-top with good set up can play quite well even when it is not expensive.
My point is that I play in a different way on arch-top-I just play with a different articulation.
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