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This is easily the 4th thread
Originally Posted by ruger9
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04-26-2022 08:54 AM
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I may be wrong, but I would think an industrial production size CNC is a huge investment. (I'm not talking about the the smaller ones.) One has to recoup their costs down the road after an investment like that. Then there's skilled labor. And I'm sure the fancy woods used at PRS are very expensive to find and buy, and take time to season and dry, and store properly. And I'm sure the PRS facility itself was a huge investment. Originally Posted by ruger9
I'm on my 3rd PRS, a C24 Piezo. Always sold the previous one after switching. (Several years ago I made a KILLING on my original '86 C24 that I bought right from Paul.)
I lucked out and got the C24 Piezo for $3k because it wasn't quite a "10 Top." Slight grain mismatch, still beautiful and stunning. Hung in a store for a couple of years. ( I probably could have gotten it for less, they jumped at my $3k offer.) I'm using it right now for a 3-wk run of "Spamalot" (the musical).
The part calls for 6 instruments (jazz guitar, electric, acoustic, nylon, banjo, uke). There is every kind of music you can imagine in this show. (My favorite is "cheesy game show sound.") This guitar takes care of all of those except for nylon classical. I can get the jazzy tones, rock tones, funky disco-y tones, and I can flip on the piezo for authentic acoustic tones. The director, string, reed and horn people have all told me how great I sound.
I realize this is JGO, but theater pit space is cramped and crowed and I just don't have the room for my archtop, electric, acoustic, nylon and banjo. My chair is a couple of inches from falling off the riser, and the lead violinist's bow poked me a few times. Not to mention the room for trombone slides.
So I'm getting away with 3 instruments (PRS, banjo, nylon). Plus the little elec uke that I just keep under my seat.
My point is, $3k is a lot of money for me, especially for a solidbody. But I USE IT FOR MY WORK throughout the year. And I might add that the PRS neck and fretwork are second to none. PRS offers 3 different neck carves, and I had to search for months to find a C24 Piezo at a "decent" price with the specific neck I wanted. So I think, for $3K for this solidbody, I lucked out.
CNC or not, I assume their entire operation/overhead has huge costs.
New C24 with Piezo on the left, previous C24 (now sold) on the right. You can see the slightly darker grain on the bottom left, eliminating the "10-top" distinction. For a $2k discount I'll take it, it doesn't really matter to me, I needed the Piezo with the specific neck carve.
Last edited by Woody Sound; 04-26-2022 at 02:05 PM.
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LOL!!! Originally Posted by Woody Sound
Here's mine, it is a 10 top, but that has no bearing on why I bought it. I wanted a DGT in THIS finish (yellow tiger), and it was available. I did buy it new, and prices have gone up recently... a year or two ago this would have been 500 less, 1000 less maybe if it wasn't a 10 top.
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That's beautiful, love that color. Mine was listed as "orange tiger," but it turned out be more like "chocolate tiger." I guess that's another reason that it sat on the store's wall for a couple of years and I got a $2k price reduction. Originally Posted by ruger9
LOL!!!
Here's mine, it is a 10 top, but that has no bearing on why I bought it. I wanted a DGT in THIS finish (yellow tiger), and it was available. I did buy it new, and prices have gone up recently... a year or two ago this would have been 500 less, 1000 less maybe if it wasn't a 10 top.
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By far of the older PRS guitars solid body wise was the all Mahogany Std. I think Paul designed a better Les Paul Special/Jr. double cut!
The maple makes them too bright imo!
Ive gone full circle to Ted MaCartys original designs back to Gibsons.
Most Comfortable, best neck shapes, and tone for me.
I wish I could like PRS guitars, but they just feel Cold and Flat in my hands! Best to all those who love them!
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I hear this alot. And I was hoping that it would not be the case when I got mine, as I only had a 2-day return window!! It wasn't, thankfully. I think maybe part of the whole "PRS are sterile" thing comes from the fact that they are so consistent: there are no "good ones" or "dogs"... they are all the same. Whether you like them or not is something else. But you don't have to search for a "good one" like you would with Gibsons, and some level of the Fender lineup. But I think many people see the consistency ("if you've played one, you've played them all") as "boring" or "sterile." Originally Posted by jads57
one caveat: the neck shapes of some models are different. The DGT, for example, has the DGT neck shape: no other PRS has it. But different PRS models can have a few different neck profiles, and of course the neck can be EVERYTHING...
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Paul refuses to make a bigger neck shape as an option on most of his models. I once asked him and he directed me to the Custom Shop at $10k and above!
I told him I’m a musician, not a magician,Lol!
Thankfully I’ve found other guitars that work for me at much lower price points.
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Paul is an odd bird. I've watched interviews with him, and when he talks about the DGT, even tho he doesn't state it explicitly, it's clear he does NOT like or agree with some of the demands that Grissom had... Paul really seemed chaffed about Grissom's demand for jumbo frets, with the ends finished at a certain angle... he also hates that Grissom plays so loud all the time. I've heard Paul describe Grissom as "demanding" and "nit-picky" LOL. Paul wants to do things Paul's way. period. Paul has done a great thing with PRS Guitars, but he's... eccentric. Being nice... not sure I'd want to work for him. Originally Posted by jads57
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Visit the PRS factory in Maryland if you ever have the chance. It's absolutely amazing! I believe it was the first OSHA certified woodworking facility built after a bunch of new restrictions were implemented. I was there several years ago, so it might have changed, but I suspect not because it was so modern and well organized (and because the cost had to be astronomical, as you suggest). Every machine is in its own area surrounded by a see-through isolating barrier, and the ventilation is stupendous. You cannot smell wood in the main shop area because there's no dust blowing around and no raggy pile of scraps. The finishing areas are also well isolated. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
I watched a machine make an entire body while the operator bopped to whatever he was listening to on his iPad. There was no cloud of dust and shavings, and the body came off the plinth looking like a luthier had been carving away on it for days. And there were several such machines turning out gorgeous bodies one after another.
I bought a Custom 22 and a Custom 24 back in the early '90s and loved them both. But the finish on the tuners on one started to come off within weeks, so I called to find out if they'd send me replacements. They said they'd be happy to replace them because they'd gotten a bad run, but they invited me to drive down with both guitars so I could see the place while they did the work there. As it was only about 2 hours from Philly, I took a vacation day and had a blast. After a complete tour, I got to play several of their custom and high end models including one of the first Dragons.
I saw Paul's wood collection and it's truly stunning. He buys every piece of wood he sees that might be a cool guitar part, so he has some truly off the wall stuff. And it comes from everywhere and everything around the world. I suspect he's bought doors off houses he drove by and tables or chairs from restaurants in which he's eaten because he saw a body or a neck in them.
When I switched exclusively to 7 strings, he wasn't making any yet - so I bought from other makers. I sold my 6s to a close friend who lives around the corner and still cherishes them. I have nothing but praise for PRS in every way. I may even look at one of their 7s one day!
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They used to offer a "wide-fat" neck, now I think it's called "pattern vintage." It's what they put on most of the hollowbodies. But maybe you want something even bigger. Originally Posted by jads57
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The guy who bought the natural one in the picture from me still sends me occasional emails, saying it's still the best solid he's ever had. Originally Posted by ruger9
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Yeah back in '86 after I bought his guitar, I called him to tell him one of the locking tuners was slipping, or stripped or something. He said "You must be really fussy." Very strange comment from a guy starting out selling expensive guitars trying make a career, but he did sent me a new tuner. It was that remark that really irked me Originally Posted by ruger9
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Originally Posted by ruger9
The DGT neck was one of my favorite PRS necks. The frets took some adjustment, though.
My favorite PRS guitars are the ones with 22 frets. I think it's because the neck pickup on the 22 fret guitars is just a little further from the bridge and you get a slightly warmer sound out of it than with a 24 fret guitar.
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At first it felt a tad fat, but I'm used to Fender Modern C profiles. I've sat with it for a few days now, and especially today- when I was running over tunes for tonite's rehearsal, and I found some things EASIER to play... never experienced that before. So I'm taking it to rehearsal tonite- 1st time playing it standing up- we'll see what happens... but I have a good feeling... Originally Posted by Bluedawg
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Originally Posted by ruger9
I lived in Maryland for 13 years so I felt some need to support a great Maryland guitar maker.
I ended up with 5 PRS guitars. I sold my PRS archtop, but I still have my CU24, CU22, McCarty and a McCarty with soapbar "P90" pickups.
I would love to add a McCarty 594 and a DGT to my collection, but their prices have gone up so much I'm not in a hurry to make that happen.
We toured the PRS factory 2 or 3 times before we left the state.
I love touring guitar factories.
I've managed to tour the Memphis and Nashville Gibson plants a couple of times, including the custom shop in 1994.
Toured the Martin factory a couple of times.
Toured the Taylor and Collings factory as well.
I even spent an extended time in Germany for work once and made it to the Nik Huber factory while over there.
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Wide Fat is really a Medium Profile neck with soft shoulders. The biggest neck they ever made came on an early SE Soapbar double cut. And they’re very first SE’s You’ll see Nick Moroch playing a Candy Blue one with 3 single coils.
Gibson 1950’s is .92” first fret to 1.0” at twelfth with more shoulder.
.88”to .96” or so. And still has slender shoulders. It’s definitely better but not larger as in Gibson or Nocaster Fender style.
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The space allocated for the 18K Ibanez Support Group has been taken over by Club PRS.
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sometimes I see photos on aliexpress, where the bridge is similarly misplaced diagonal, but there at least the frets are OK.
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Originally Posted by Litterick
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Well it is a JAZZ Forum and improvisation is the key!
The space allocated for the 18K Ibanez Support Group has been taken over by Club PRS.
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Perhaps one of the builders can weigh on this, but in this day of CNC technology, isn't this a needlessly tedious way of doing this?
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The rest of the wood is then removed using small finger planes and carving tools. Now, thats tedious… Originally Posted by emkc
Perhaps one of the builders can weigh on this, but in this day of CNC technology, isn't this a needlessly tedious way of doing this?
For a small builder cnc is a big investment both in machines and in learning. Some have taken the step, but final carving and tuning is still manual.
About the drilling, once you have the jigs it doesnt take as long as one might think
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I get the part about fine tuning by hand. Originally Posted by JohanAbrandt
I've worked in a school shop with CNC for the last several years (not instrument making), and I'm in no way an expert. However the precision, repetition and time saving aspects convinced me.
Especially in constructing jigs or something as simple as cutting out circles. I think some people, especially students, can use it as a crutch, at the expense of craft.
Thanks for the reply.
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Oh let the PRS fans have their fun. If they were to try this discussion at thegearpage the anti PRS crew would cream them!
But… no thoughts on that fret layout/changing scale on the JS?
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Hmmm, that looks pretty cool, but then again - have a soft spot for that style of guitar considering that I gigged with this for several years. Originally Posted by Crm114
1980 Howard Roberts Fusion
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