Gibson L-5 Education

**Len R** · 03-19-2022, 03:29 PM

I am interested in acquiring a vintage Gibson L5C, and was wondering if the fine folks here can point me to some resources that explain the evolution in design and construction. For example, I'd like to understand the differences between an L5 made in 1949, 1950, 1953, 1957, 1960, etc. There are quite a few for sale right now but the prices are all over the map (ranging from very expensive to crazy expensive). Any suggestions welcome.

Thanks!

Len

**ThatRhythmMan** · 03-19-2022, 03:57 PM

One of the big differences is that a ‘49 or ‘50 will very likely have a Brazilian rosewood fingerboard vs the later years you mention which will have gone back to the standard ebony. Everything else should be pretty minor. The construction postwar will be basically the same, but the hardware has some evolution.

**wintermoon** · 03-19-2022, 04:04 PM

They're all basically the same post 1940 w the exception TRM pointed out and the earlier Kluson Sealfast tuners have plastic buttons as opposed to metal on the later ones. In my experience the 40s models have a more punchy sound in general, but it varies from guitar to guitar.

**icr** · 03-19-2022, 04:17 PM

Try to get ahold of the Gibson catalogs from those eras. They are a nice reference.
For example I have an L7 so I was keen to find the old catalogs that explain the differences between L5 and L7.

Also, check this website: Gibson Pre-War Guitars, Kevin Mark Designs - Gibson 1940 L5

Gibson L-5 Education-1934-gibson-l7-jpg

**Filmosound 621** · 03-19-2022, 05:01 PM

the changes from year to year are listed on this well known site,

not just for Gibson, not just for the L-5

somewhat dated, but a great reference still.

Vintage Guitars Info - Gibson collecting vintage gibson guitars

**Len R** · 03-20-2022, 12:09 PM

Thanks everyone for the great info, very helpful.

Len

**6v6ster** · 03-25-2022, 02:14 PM

Here a link to a bunch of catalogs.

Catalogs - Acoustic Music

**jads57** · 03-25-2022, 06:23 PM

So early L-5 models were all 16” but varied in internal construction.
Some are incredibly desirable, probably Loyd Loar models.
Of the ones I’ve played it’s hit and miss, but some probably needed internal work.

The Premier L-5C models were 17” and they varied from neck flat on the body to later pitched like most traditional Archtops we all know. These eventually morphed into electric models with much thicker tops to support the pickups and were parallel braced.
I would imagine the Acoustic versions were mostly X braced affairs..

In the late 1960’s laminated backs and sides I believe were used to reduce feedback issues. And Wes Montgomery famously used one these sharp cutaway models.
Since then it’s just pretty much different people following the Gibson blueprint. Some were great others just average.

For me I like the Phillip Wharton builds best followed by Jim Hutchins in the 1990’s. Everyone has their favorite and best to play each one. I will also say I’d probably just have Mark Campellone build you the perfect spec L-5C acoustic or electric. Way better value and build overall.

**omphalopsychos** · 03-26-2022, 10:12 AM

The headstock logo is coolest before 48. Also starting in 1960 the necks get slimmer. For most players this is an undesirable change. Some of the 40s postwar ones have an ebony board. If I had a choice among all of them I’d get one before the headstock logo changes and try to find in with an ebony board. These also tend to have the best acoustic sound.

**Woody Sound** · 03-26-2022, 10:47 AM

I don't own this, but it might be a resource.

https://www.amazon.com/Gibson-L5-Adr.../dp/1574240471

**Len R** · 03-26-2022, 12:13 PM

Thanks for the additional info, very helpful. I have a few L5s, but they are all modern (2001 and later). Curious about trying old wood to get that vintage acoustic archtop tone, mostly for solo guitar, not looking to cut through a big band. The archtops I have are outstanding (including a Campellone 30th anniversary special) but I would like to compare them to 50-70 year old wood.

Len

**RJVB** · 03-26-2022, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Len R

I would like to compare them to 50-70 year old wood.

I can tell you from experience that the older ones will smell just like that

(of course my experience is with instruments quite a bit older than any archtop, but a lot smaller too

)

**bluejaybill** · 03-26-2022, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Len R

Thanks for the additional info, very helpful. I have a few L5s, but they are all modern (2001 and later). Curious about trying old wood to get that vintage acoustic archtop tone, mostly for solo guitar, not looking to cut through a big band. The archtops I have are outstanding (including a Campellone 30th anniversary special) but I would like to compare them to 50-70 year old wood.

Len

It will be hard to beat that Campellone, I have found that acoustic L5's have varied quite a bit. It has been a very long time since L5's were designed for acoustic prowess, at least since the mid-50's they have been designed with electric playing in mind at least partly, if not mainly.

The best acoustic L5 I have ever played was from right around 1930, a 16" model from right after the Loar era but around the same specs. Just a phenomenal guitar, I don't know how they got so much sound out of a small body, and if you found the right one they can have very modern necks. But some have a deep V that is uncomfortable for many.

I have a Campellone Special, and if I was looking for another "old wood" acoustic arch top, I would be looking for a clean very early L5 ($30K) or a D'Angellico ($35K and up). As someone said a late '40's L5P might be worth looking at, I have never played one. But is I was looking for an L5 it would be a CES with either P90's or PAF's.

**jads57** · 03-28-2022, 08:09 PM

Mark Campellone builds Great Gibson Style Archtops! While old instruments especially acoustic ones are somewhat fascinating. They aren’t necessarily better or magical.

In fact I’d go as far to say I’ve never played an old guitar any style that’s better than what’s offered by some of todays luthiers. Flat top Archtop, Solid, Thinline, etc.
We absolutely live in the best time for new guitars. Now music is an altogether different issue, Lol!

**Jimmy Mack** · 03-29-2022, 09:16 PM

I recently played one of the first archtop guitars made by John D'Angelico, from (IIRC) from the 30's. Where? at the D"Angelico showroom in NYC.
It's uncertain whether this guitar had been played much, it may have just been "showcased" for a long time.
How was it? Well built and lightweight. The neck - average. The sound.....let's just say I wouldn't buy it. It was like a cranky old acoustic, not much bass or mid-range. Good for an orchestra? I don't think so. It did one thing, and not so well. Some other player may make it work, but, I'll stick with what I have.

**jim777** · 03-31-2022, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack

I recently played one of the first archtop guitars made by John D'Angelico, from (IIRC) from the 30's. Where? at the D"Angelico showroom in NYC.
It's uncertain whether this guitar had been played much, it may have just been "showcased" for a long time.
How was it? Well built and lightweight. The neck - average. The sound.....let's just say I wouldn't buy it. It was like a cranky old acoustic, not much bass or mid-range. Good for an orchestra? I don't think so. It did one thing, and not so well. Some other player may make it work, but, I'll stick with what I have.

It's funny, but this reminded me of a friend's all original '52 telecaster, serial # around 3200. Any new Squier Affinity for $200 would blow it away easily in terms of...literally everything but resale value. It's part of the beauty of wood I suppose.

**deacon Mark** · 03-31-2022, 01:21 PM

I have spruce tops in my basement workshop that are carved a bit to shape but not graduated. They are all over 25 years old at least and they have not even been made into a guitar. My guess is they will make pretty fine sounding archtop guitar. I also have the maple backs at the same age in the same point of carving. I should put these together in an archtop myself but just have not done it yet. The necks will be the issue, I have plenty of the wood ready that old just not put together as a neck. It could depend on how old the wood was when the guitar was made right?

**doc w** · 03-31-2022, 04:14 PM

I am no expert, having bought my first vintage Gibson archtop just last year (1935 L-12). I will say that one thing which was of great importance to me was the acoustic qualities of the guitar. I may add a floating pickup at some point, but I wanted a purely acoustic instrument. In the postwar years, Gibson acoustic archtops became much less acoustic and a lot more electric. A modern L-5, as you know, is electric, with pickups mounted into the top. In my opinion, this has to make a very big difference in acoustic quality. Many people think that this change occurred during the 1950s so at some point in that decade, L-5's ceased to be acoustic guitars. I would be interested to hear opinions on how and when that change occurred.

**deacon Mark** · 03-31-2022, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by doc w

I am no expert, having bought my first vintage Gibson archtop just last year (1935 L-12). I will say that one thing which was of great importance to me was the acoustic qualities of the guitar. I may add a floating pickup at some point, but I wanted a purely acoustic instrument. In the postwar years, Gibson acoustic archtops became much less acoustic and a lot more electric. A modern L-5, as you know, is electric, with pickups mounted into the top. In my opinion, this has to make a very big difference in acoustic quality. Many people think that this change occurred during the 1950s so at some point in that decade, L-5's ceased to be acoustic guitars. I would be interested to hear opinions on how and when that change occurred.

Depends on the guitar. I have a 2003 L5c custom shop was carved as an acoustic, it does have a floating BJB but acoustically this guitar rings and sound great. It is very bright and cutting in sound but very lively top. I had an L5 c Norlin made in 1979 or so and it sounded good too although not quite a lively as my current one. Frankly it just varies but I will say those before 1960 are usually pretty fine guitars. After that you sort of have to judge them individually. Personally I am convinced that Gibson made it finest guitars in some sense from about 1990-2007-8 ish. Hutch was overseeing the custom shop and all of these guitars were pretty good. A Wes L5 from the late 1990's pretty but top of the line for carving although not an acoustic or built as such. I think in these years when they build an acoustic they got more into the tuning of the guitar and top. Not so much with the ces models but QC on them were still top notch despite those you disagree.

**pawlowski6132** · 12-08-2023, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Len R

Thanks for the additional info, very helpful. I have a few L5s, but they are all modern (2001 and later). Curious about trying old wood to get that vintage acoustic archtop tone, mostly for solo guitar, not looking to cut through a big band. The archtops I have are outstanding (including a Campellone 30th anniversary special) but I would like to compare them to 50-70 year old wood.

Len

I don't think you'll here much of a difference. The guitar may be 50 years old but the wood is like 300 years old to begin with. People will tell you that the guitar "opens up" over playing time, blah blah blah. I think that's rubbish though and would bet paycheck's that they couldn't hear that difference in a blind test.

Old guitars sound different for myriad reasons, the least of which is because of age. It's not wine.

Again, a 70 year old guitar played today is going to sound the same as it did 70 years ago.

**RJVB** · 12-08-2023, 12:47 PM

YMMV.

I know from experience that there are violinists who can hear things that make them think an instrument hasn't been played for a long time without knowing this beforehand, and not be wrong about it. Part of that may be infamiliarity (of the player) with the instrument but there are strong enough indications that things do change in the wood when it's being played and as a function of how it vibrates.

**jads57** · 12-08-2023, 01:37 PM

So as we all discuss the merits of old vs new. A couple of important factors,cost $$$ as well as actual use or application.

When these are factored into the equation, a newer used Campellone or even other luthiers offerings become quite attractive!