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Originally Posted by burchyk
Last edited by ASonic; 01-09-2022 at 09:30 PM.
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01-09-2022 08:46 PM
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Hmm I think that amp is the weakest link..
Get your guitar to the store and try some amps
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Originally Posted by burchyk
check this vid out. With the pick change my sound is mellower and better than his though.He has bass on max and treble on min, which seems like a good idea, but I found that the amp has sweet spots when it comes to eq, and going too far just makes the tone worse. Bear in mind this everything is about the specific dark PM sound, if I wanted Wes sound or something else, maybe I'd have to tweak everything differently, and change gear.Last edited by ASonic; 01-10-2022 at 08:18 AM.
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Brent from Learn Jazz Standards uses an Artcore guitar with a very nice sounding.
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Ok I tried to record a PM solo on my phone, and it's garbage quality, but maybe it will at least be 10% helpful.
Also recorded another short clip in silence so that Pat's sound doesn't cover mine. I'm intending to get a proper audio interface for recording, so maybe soon I can post something worthy.
P.S. wanted to do a pick comparison, but forgot, will add that later, I just don't think there'll be much difference on a crappy recording like this.
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Thanks a lot Jimmy Blue Note for the capacitator explanation "...different values change the sweep, but the actual sound of the pickup at both ends of the tone, 0 and 10 are the same. Different caps will effect how fast the high or low end bleeds off,..."
It saved me from a time consuming experiment that would only have given me a lesser functional guitar.
Im not a manufacturer of capacitators but Im still on the capacitator track though and found another mod that maybe will change the tone the way I originally thought the capacitator could help me doing. It places the capacitator on the outgoing "hotwire" from the pickup.
Seymour Duncan Mod Squad: Muddy sounding neck pickup? - Guitar Pickups, Bass Pickups, Pedals
I will try it on my guitar before deciding on changing the pickup. Actually I think that the ACH is a quite good jazz pickup, with its own benefits, but I would like to try a different sound.
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Oh, the capacitor debate... LOL.
There may have been a few people before us who had an opinion on the subject.
I'm somewhat agnostic, because I understand the scientific point of view that capacitance is capacitance.
However, I did change out a Gibson PCB for some real PIO caps, pots, etc. and it did sound a lot better! There was no question about this!
But what was the actual cause for the change? That's harder to judge. Too many things were changed at once to be sure.
What I do know is, if I'm in the position to change caps for some reason, I'm going with the best old style ones I can find. It won't hurt!
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I have an Ibanez JTK-3, with the same ACH pickups as yours. I found them lacking in clarity and fidelity, but adequate in output. So what I did, was swapping the ceramic magnets. I put an Alnico 3 magnet in the neck pickup and an Alnico 2 in the bridge pickup, and voila! Now they're both sweet-sounding and articulate, pretty much like PAF style humbuckers are supposed to sound.
Magnets are cheap, and changing them is not difficult.
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Originally Posted by Emperor
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Originally Posted by ASonic
A4 is also very nice, somewhat brighter than A2 and A3, and a little louder too. But not as trebly and loud as A5, which (in my opinion) is less usefull for jazz.
If you want to try this, don't try to melt the pickups open. There is usually so much solder holding the cover to the base, that it is much easier just softening it with the iron. Then using a very sharp knife (Stanley is good), cut through the solder on both sides. This makes it easier resoldering them too.Last edited by Emperor; 01-11-2022 at 09:23 AM.
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What I hear in your clips that PM has more mids / upper mids and less bass (might be room acoustics).
Edit: check that track around 4:35 where he does a run from lower register to higher, notice how the higher notes have more volume. I think this is an interesting way to compare - by checking different registers.
Try to bring the bass on the amp down a bit, and play with the treble on the amp in combination with the tone control on the guitar. E.g. on Fender amps I would run the amp treble > 5 and guitar tone lower to get those high mids.
I think Pat has at least some compression and reverb (either guitar or the whole track), those are part of that sound as well.
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Originally Posted by burchyk
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Here got that part without the track so you can hear something. I upped the treble a bit but kept the tone at ~1, cause with fully closed tone it had no punch at all. I promise you the bass isn't as window shattering as it may seem just need a proper recording setup. What's remarkable is that barely any amount of delay is captured on the video lol I guess this everything is useless with a mic like this. What I wanted to show was that the sound of this amp tweaked well isn't bad at all, but I'm not sure it's audible like this anyway. The dynamics aren't showing either, when I play it the high strings are certainly more loud like you mentioned, but here it's all one flat mess for some reason. I believe Pat also starts the that run quieter and goes on a crescendo and not because his treble is much louder I'll give up on recording with this phone.
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Originally Posted by Emperor;[URL="tel:1171847"
and It looks a fairly easy job to swap magnets ....
I don’t know why more people don’t
try that ....
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Nice, this sounds like a phone recording of a decent tone I think you're in the right ballpark, and the phrasing is spot on, esp those last few notes!
If you feel like there is still too much bass/treble and not enough mids in person, you could try lowering the pickup slightly - it should soften the sound. Also use the opportunity to balance lows and highs with the pickup height while you're at it. Should just take a minute.
Time to practice
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Can confirm swapping magnets is an inexpensive way to tweak the tone. My favourite is A2 for richer mids.
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Things are not easy when you got no soldering skills whatsoever, but I'll try Thanks! Glad it wasn't a waste of time after all. My pickup is pretty low already.. around 4mm at the bass side, 3.5-3.6 at the treble, I could try, but I already have the amp at full volume lol
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Wolfgang Muthspiel does OK with a Vox.
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Originally Posted by Carl Greeff
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I suspect that the thing about capacitors that make people think they can hear the difference between types is the tolerance. There is a wide tolerance, and there can be a considerable difference between the actual capacitance values of two capacitors, and they can both be within tolerance, even if they're made of identical materials. If one is just within tolerance on the low side, and one is near the high limit, they can give different sounds. Which is better is purely a matter of personal preference if heard blindfolded, but seeing the caps can skew the preference. Oil and paper is an inferior, obsolete way of manufacturing them, but the eyes often affect the ears.
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Originally Posted by ASonic
If your chasing after the tone of Pat Metheny you may succed with totally different things. I'm not sure but I also heard that Metheny plays skinny strings and picks and I'm sure all his guitars have the adjustable metal bridge. And I think he also has (or had) a complex effect chain with harmonizers and delays and such.
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Originally Posted by guavajelly
For me, changing to the jazz demanded that I control my note attack more carefully but it rewarded me by giving me a range that I could manipulate, especially in the clarity of upper frequencies.
Pickups are a reflection of what you play. Style and electronics can be a constant challenge to feel a match.
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Originally Posted by guavajelly
I agree on the bridge, I think for the tone that I want , wooden bridge may not be an improvement, so I'll def keep the TOM for now. The pickups.. I'm not sure. I really like Seths, but who knows if it will make a huge difference or not. I'd like to get MIJ Super58s, but these are like unicorns, almost impossible to find for a good price. All the listings are sold.
I love Benson as well, but I don't play stuff with his sound that much, otherwise I'd go with TI's, wooden bridge, brighter settings etc. Right now I've successfully tamed my VOX's high end with flatwounds, EQ and tone control, so it's pretty good, but it's still a tiny bit dull. What I'm not sure is if it's a pickup issue, amp issue or something else. So I don't want to rush for now. I'll fiddle with it for a month or so and then see.
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I find that the speaker has a big influence on the overall sound. If you have access to other speakers try hooking up your Vox (making sure the impedance matches or double, not less).
I've read somewhere that the Vox AC4 have a bright cap on the volume and gain controls which is similar to a treble bleed. Maybe yours is like that? Running gain low would produce a jangly tone.. Testing that effect can be done by turning up the gain a bit and backing off the guitar volume - I like to do that on Fender amps (amp volume, there is no gain).
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Originally Posted by burchyk
I do play with high gain and low volume when I use the overdrive with other guitars. Just tested with gain at around 2-3 oclock and volume at 10. It does sound better, a bit .. snappier? Less muddy? But at the same time its got some drive to it, making the attack sound sharper. It's not bad but not smooth enough as with low gain high volume.Last edited by ASonic; 01-15-2022 at 06:16 PM.
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