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Originally Posted by sgosnell
"The result was the same as tuning down the strings by a semitone and using a capo at the first fret. With less tension in the strings, the sound was more mellow and softer; it also allowed me to cover a larger span of the fingerboard. I used this for quite a few years, but eventually I went back to the standard fingerboard." [from this interview]
He was an inveterate tinkerer and experimenter. He built an amp into his stool, designed and built an octave effect and other electronics, and designed the Tal Farlow model (including variants that were never built that had different electronics). All in all, he seem to have been a really fascinating guy with all sorts of interests who loved to follow his own curiosity.
Originally Posted by sgosnell
So yes, as a matter of measurement in a lab two strings of the same gauge at the same pitch but with different scale-lengths have measurably different harmonic peaks and valleys. But I don't know how much to make of that in the real world (and grant that others may hear this better than I do). I also honestly don't know whether I feel a differences between scale lengths. I have 4 guitars, each with a different scale length [an archtop with the "Gibson" scale (24.6" measured by doubling the nut->12th fret distance) strung with flat 13's; a semi-hollow with an actual 24.75" scale length (round 10's); a Fender strat (actual 25.5", also round 10's); and an Eastman flattop (24.9", PB 12's)]. There's no way I can sort out the difference in feel based on scale-length.
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06-26-2023 11:14 AM
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Try a chord grip spanning 5 frets from the first fret, on both you shortest and longest fretboards.
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I don't claim a difference in feel, but I do believe that different tension makes some difference in tone. A string tuned to a pitch at one scale length sounds subtly different when tuned to the same pitch at a different scale length, because the tension is different. OTOH I have guitars with 25.5", 25.0", and 24.75" nominal scale lengths, and I honestly cannot feel any difference between them in terms of fret spans. I also play mandos of different scale lengths, and there is no real difference to me between them and playing a guitar at higher frets. If playing guitars with different scale lengths is difficult, then playing the same guitar in different keys, or at different places on the fretboard, should be just as difficult. To me, it's all the same - keys and scale length make no difference, other than different sounds in different locations, and using open strings, or not. I'm far from a pro guitarist, but I can't understand the difficulty of playing guitars with different scale lengths. I'm not saying that there is none, just that I have difficulty understanding it. To me, playing a tune in A, Bb, or B is pretty much the same, although the frets are slightly different distances apart. I just adjust and play.
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Originally Posted by sgosnell
and - yes! You get it. Not much difference physically in playing a bird. Nothing you don’t adjust to in a few minutes of playing and no different than more common scale lengths minus the 1st fret plus 2 at the end.
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Now here’s an important takeaway from having gone through 4 of these guitars. The width of the fret IS important. The blonde florentine I posted had been restored and refreted by Gibson before I got it. Despite having better upper register access, the 21st and 22nd frets were pretty difficult to trigger because of the (heavier) gauge of sting I was using, and that jumbo, wide fret wire they were using at the time. Narrow fret wire is pretty important to maintain the integrity of the frets as you get higher on the fretboard with a shorter scale…with heavy strings anyway, lighter strings were fine.
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I read an article, actually it was more like a scientific paper, that measured the overtones of different scale lengths. The 25.5 had the most, and also were different from 24.75, in whether they were even or odd harmonics, or which were accentuated I should say. 25" scale was mentioned briefly as being different still, and not just half way between the two. The Byrdland scale wasn't mentioned but would be assumed to be different as well.
The closest comparison I have is a vintage D28 and 00028 of roughly the same era, with the same woods. Slightly smaller body on the 000, but definitely different overtones. It's harder to extrapolate on arch tops because of the different construction and woods used between the different models.
In terms of the scale length, I have 24.75, 25 and 25.5 and can get around on all, but some things are easier on one than the others. I've played shorter, and didn't like them. I also find that I have more trouble with intonation as the necks get shorter. YMMV etc.
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Originally Posted by bluejaybill
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Originally Posted by tpandela
......' Live in Paris ' - -all that need be said !
.....And I just had to add this from ' Live in Montreal ' - - also magic !!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uhpAKuQOQA
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Originally Posted by Jazzjourney4Eva
Sort of rambling while still on the first cup of coffee, but hopefully still understandable.
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Originally Posted by sgosnell
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I don’t find the Byrd harder to tune than any other guitar nor does it have intonation issues. In fact, my Byrd is probably the most stable instrument I’ve ever owned.
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I don't think tuning is any more difficult on a Byrdland scale than most other guitars, because the scale length difference isn't as drastic. By the time you get to mandolin length, it does become touchier, at least for me. On a bass, there is a wider range of acceptable tuning. Like most other things, it's relative. At least, that's my theory of relativity.
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I wanted a Byrdland until I bought one.
We lasted a year.
Pickups too close to each other.
Conclusion, a novelty for me.
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Originally Posted by bohemian46
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I think the es 175 has its neck pickup at the 24th fret, just like the es335 and Les Paul (or telecasters).
The gap is because the es 175 is missing two frets.
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
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Originally Posted by Chris236
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
Originally Posted by Tal_175
Last edited by Chris236; 07-05-2023 at 02:08 AM.
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Interesting video here if you want to really hear the difference between scale lengths.
I have skipped to the last page on this thread, so apologies if this has been posted previously.
My take away is that the shorter the scale length gets, the more honky and less dynamic the tone becomes.
That's not to take away from shorter scale guitars or to claim they don't sound as good.
They sound great on record vintage records to me. It's just what I hear from the experiment done in the video.
1979 L5 CES - Sweden ~$7k
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