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Originally Posted by pauln
Thank you very much for this explanation. Even though I can't comment on the technical description, I'm with you on the Mids up, Bass and Treble down principle. I would often use that as a starting point myself. I don't know if every B,M,T tonestack works the way you describe though?
The part of your story that really speaks to me is that we "need time getting used to a sound". This definitely applies to me. I don't feel comfortable when I can't have "my sound". A long time ago I played just one particular guitar. Any other guitar felt wrong. I solved that problem by spending time with different guitars and eventually got cured (and learned a few things about setup and adjustment). These days I also got a few different amps. Even though I don't depend on an individual amp per se, my amp customization skills are limited to tube and speaker replacement. And the amp variation I come across outside my studio is greater than the variation of my guitars. I guess I have to work on my personal "good enough philosophy", but I still believe some amps are not for me.
As long as the back line rig has a poweramp Input/FX return, I could use my own portable preamp.Last edited by JCat; 09-25-2021 at 07:17 AM.
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09-25-2021 05:00 AM
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There are two types of amps, and you have to know which you have. There is the Fender style, and flat is with all the tone knobs at zero (or 1, which is as low as some go). Increasing the treble cuts the bass, and increasing the bass cuts the treble. You cannot add either, only cut. I do not like these amps, but lots of people do. The other type has active tone controls, and flat is with the knobs at 12 o'clock. You can add or cut bass, treble, or mids. These are much more intuitive, and seem to sound better to me.
So if you have a Fender style, start with the tone knobs all the way off, and increase to taste. On my Vibrolux Reverb, I generally have the bass at about 1.5 and the treble between 2 and 3, meaning those numbers on the knob are at 12 o'clock. For active tone stacks, I start with everything at 12 o'clock. I may change one or more slightly, depending on the room, the guitar, and the pick, and how my ear hears at the time. I don't often move any of them much, though. YMMV.
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Originally Posted by marcwhy
I don't think so
He's using a Fender Strat into a Modified BJ (Fender into Fender)
Glassy tones, nice, but that's not my Jazz!
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It's YouTube. Not much different than facebook. You have to search diligently to find even a little truth.
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Originally Posted by Greco
Gain: 10-12 o'clock
Volume: 10-12 o'clock
Low: 12 o'clock
Low Mid: 2 o'clock
High Mid: 12 o'clock
High: 10 o'clock
Presence: 12 o'clock
I have found no drastic cuts or boosts are usually required for the Bud. Essentially, the mid (Low Mid) is slightly boosted and the treble (High) is slightly cut. Everything else is basically flat. How much the EQ is adjusted will vary depending on the gain/volume settings required by the instrument and volume needed for the situation.
Most archtops sound pretty good this way. For flattops, which also sound good through the Bud, I may boost the bass and treble a bit and cut some mid.
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Originally Posted by Litterick
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Originally Posted by Chazmo
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Originally Posted by sgosnell
Yes, the tone knobs are passive but they cut signal as you turn them down.
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Originally Posted by JCat
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You don't need to understand the engineering to be able to set simple levels.
I start with everything at 5.
It's jazz so I start by adjusting the bass. I'll leave it at 5 if I'm in a flat mood or bump it to 6 or 7 if I'm in a bassman mood.
Next I adjust the treble. Bump it up a tad if I want more bite or back if I want it smoky.
Usually that's all you need to do.
You don't want a bunch of mids for a jazz sound regardless of whether you like it bright or dark. So I decide if I want a more scoopy sound with the treble above the mids, or a more smoky sound with the treble backed slightly below the mids.
That's about it. Not too difficult. You can make more extreme adjustments, but these basic principles will work pretty simply.
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
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I fiddled with the three tone controls on my DV Mark Little Jazz.
It seems to me that they work as advertised. That is, the bass control seems to increase bass, without affecting the mids or treble. And, each of the others seems to affect only its own stated range. Not like my Mesa Boogie, where the controls are far more interactive.
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Originally Posted by Clint 55
I owned a Rivera M100 for a while and the amp was able to produce a number of good sounds. It was not a matter of playing and adjusting to flavour. It was about getting to know the amp and now what it is able to do.
The more complex an amp. The more time it will take to experiment before you know what you are doing. I remember i met the guy who used to own rhe rivera. Het stepped into to the practicing room. Plugged in a guitar, twiched a few knobbes and made the M100 sound like i never heard it. He was in control. And that is often the trouble. A lot of people are not.
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It's not hocus pocus, you just learn the eq spectrum and then adjusting becomes intuitive. I run my XK-5 organ thru a 10 band eq and I know what each slider does and I can manipulate it to get the sound I want without too much trouble. I have a 31 band rack eq on the way.
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Originally Posted by Clint 55
And you play the organ too! Bro, I love the organ!
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Originally Posted by JCat
And you play the organ too! Bro, I love the organ!
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On a serious note, I don't see why anyone would not use an eq if they couldn't get the sound they want. I'm one of the most anti pedal guys there is. They're just not fun for me, but eq is indispensable for me.
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Originally Posted by Clint 55
It is hocus pocus. Not with a Fender champ or a little jazz. But the more complex the amp, the more hocus pocus it gets. A 30 band EQ is just that: an EQ. An amp is more than its EQ.
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Listen to the sound and adjust accordingly.
Wireless is great for getting a sense of the sound in the room. I’ve started using this… it’s a revelation…. Recording gigs can be helpful too. Listen to the guitar sound in the mix.
Practice room settings are not gig settings.
obvious stuff really but I find it can be hard to remember all of this in the heat of the moment. Experience is everything, and the capacity to reflect.
Sometimes you must suffer a little bit as a player to have a sound that works better for the audience. Treble down smooths out the sound, makes it easier to play, but may disappear in the mix. OTOH if you play to the side of your amp (sometimes unavoidable in small venues) it’s easy to dial in a sound that’s way too bright.
I consistently want to hear the guitar louder when I am playing than when I am listening back. I know this intellectually, so don’t turn up too loud in general, but I still often play too hard to compensate which can lock up my left hand and cause tension when playing live with drums. It’s difficult. Boost pedals etc can help.
there’s a sweet spot where I am not too loud but have helpful compression from the amp and don’t have to play too heavy, but on some gigs this seems to be like hunting a unicorn. On other gigs it all works great. I’m better at knowing ways to get this feel and sound more consistently, but it’s not 100%.
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Graphic EQ is great in theory, if you are good at hearing frequencies you can notch out a horrible room sound or whatever. However I’ve taken mine of the board because I’ve never found it that much help tbh.
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I could add that, in the process of getting to know your amp and its relationship to your sound, it is helpful to take it in small chunks - no more than a half-hour tops. Your ears need rest. And remember sound is contextual. It's not just you and your instrument and your amp - it's also all the other sound generator/reflector/absorber sources in the room at the time. It is a fluid situation that needs vigilance to manage. A good FOH person is helpful but frequently absent. Wing it, and hope for the best, prepared by practice.
FWIW, I gradually started using my amp as a personal monitor - I aim it at my ears, whether it's in front of me or behind, and try to keep in mind that what I am hearing is what is going out to the audience, whether mediated by FOH or not. Regardless of whether it is feeding a mic or just bouncing off the ceiling, what the audience will hear is a version of that sound. I try to get it right from the outset.
I do not always succeed, but I always try.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Originally Posted by Marcel_A
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Originally Posted by citizenk74
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Originally Posted by Clint 55
After that, you can adjust the bass and treble a bit for final tweaking. But that might not be enough, fender BF amps in particular have a scooped sound, not ideal for a jazz tone.
I have three ways of dealing with this, though I'll only use one at a time generally.
Number one, a Boss GE7 EQ with a very slight boost in the two low mid bands. This works pretty immediately, pretty simple actually. Mine is a modded version so it is very clean. Also useful for radically changing your tone when needed.
Second, find a boost type pedal with an EQ that works, which can add a bit of mids and compression. I use a King of Tone for this, but there are many other options depending on what tone you are looking for.
Third, I just picked up the new version Empress compressor. I have had a problem with one of my guitars in that the unwound second string is just louder than the rest, and the compressor helps tame it. There is a mix control so the effect is really subtle, not very compressed sounding really, more like an amp in the sweet spot. Plus it has a tilt EQ for added control.
As an added benefit, you can leave the pedals off for a cleaner rhythm sound and use the pedal for a fuller lead sound, still with a very organic jazz tone. Works for me.
KA PAF info please
Today, 11:52 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos