Jazz Strat question

[Bach5G]

If one were looking at a jazz Strat, what pickups would you consider? I read descriptions like “tweed”, “blond”, “blackface” etc. Lollar makes a “dirty blond”.

I gather tweed and blackface relate to Fender’s 50s and 60s eras but I’m not sure what this means in practice.

[dlew919]

Tweed and blackface refer to the amps. So nothing to do with strat description.

For a jazz strat, check out an Eric Johnson signature.


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[vernon]

Hi Bach5G...

I ordered a Lollar “dirty blonde” set for my strat years ago. That was blondes in the neck and middle... and a special (higher output) in the bridge. Blond pickups are scooped in the midrange... like blackface fender amps. Very pleasing tone. Lollars give you a more expansive tonal palette to work with in my opinion.., but I’m a Lollar guy.

[Bach5G]

Hi Bach5G...

I ordered a Lollar “dirty blonde” set for my strat years ago. That was blondes in the neck and middle... and a special (higher output) in the bridge. Blond pickups are scooped in the midrange... like blackface fender amps. Very pleasing tone. Lollars give you a more expansive tonal palette to work with in my opinion.., but I’m a Lollar guy.

What’s tweed then?

[Gitfiddler]

If you are looking for a jazz sound from a Strat, then I recommend starting with it being set up for flats. Single coil pickups can sound great for jazz due to their clarity.

[pauln]

I've played my Strat with Lace sensors for 33 years and am super happy with their sound for jazz. They have a lot of nice things about them.

They don't use strong pole magnets so they don't pull on the strings. This is part of the basis for the nice effects on how they sound.

- the harmonic qualities of notes are not reduced or impaired through the sustain and decay.
- the notes high up the neck are not piercing, because when played firmly the pickups themselves lend some natural compression, similarly to how a hollow body loads the mechanical energy of a picked string more slowly than a solid body.

Each pickup produces three dozen overlapping magnetic fields rather than six concentrated fields. This is the basis for the other nice effects on how they sound.

- the fields are wide and cover multiple strings (laterally across the strings) but also the fields are wide longitudinally along the string lengths (so more of the string length contributes to the signal). This causes a more complex tone similar to the influence of a hollow body's effect on the string.
- it is possible to increase this complexity by lowering the pickups to "increase their aperture" and respond to even more string length.
- the mutual response levels of the strings are very balanced with chords and single notes have body and depth.

Of course they are also absolutely dead silent without hum or buzz or other noise so you can express the quiet end of dynamics clearly. For recording or performance, this is a huge thing.

You may decide that you aren't interested in Lace, but maybe it will help to consider what is below, even for other choices.

I like my Strat to approach the sound of a Gibson L-5. What I do is:

- use big old Fender tube amps
- plug into the #2 input (-6dB)
- set amp tone controls T=1 M=10 B=1, volume about half
- set Strat tones 7 to 10, volume 7 to 10
- play gently!

Playing gently is one of the biggest things that helps a solid body sound like a jazz box. You have to imagine a proportion that relates between the high and tight fat strings of a traditional jazz box and the level of effort needed to play them (picking firmness). Maybe it helps to think of this as a comparison between the feel of the tightness of the string (felt through the pick) to the tightness of the pick (felt through the pick). Once you get a sense of that proportion, apply that to the lighter easier strings on a solid body... once you pick lightly enough toward that proportion, the mechanical things happening will start to sound more like a jazz box.

Otherwise you physically "overdrive" the strings and they do non-jazz sounding things like raising pitch slightly during attack, vibrating excessively and damping against the frets, etc. Using a medium to heavy thickness pick and holding it loosely so it is "less tight than the string being played" rather than pushing through with a 1 or 2 or 3mm slab can help keep picking light and mechanically in proportion to the lighter strings.

[Cunamara]

Tweed is another amp style. The first Fender amplifiers had tweed fabric covering them rather than tolex. Those amps were voiced differently (lots of bass, strong mids, tendency to break up into distortion early); as time went on, Fender was focused more and more on clean tones and country /western swing music, which were Leo's personal interests. Tweed, brownface, blackface, silverface, etc. are all iterations of fender amplifiers over decades and mostly named after changes in cosmetic appearance. These terms have nothing to do with pickups.

as for Strat pickups suitable for jazz, basically you want something with a strong bass and lower mids profile, less glassiness and high-end information for the more typical jazz sound. But they can sound great. Fenders noiseless pickups, in particular, seem to lend themselves well to this. I like the Bill Lawrence/Wilde L280 pick ups.

_1 on pauln's comments.

Lorne Lofsky on a Strat:

Forum member Jens Larsen:

A guy named Mathias has a few videos on YouTube playing jazz on a Strat:

[Litterick]

A short film about tweed. It is not the woollen fabric woven on the Isle of Harris.

[jasonmi3]

For a jazz strat, check out an Eric Johnson signature.

+1 to this. I loved the sound of my EJ strat so much for jazz I picked up a set of the EJ Pickups and put them in another strat I had lying around. In my opinion the EJ Strat still sounds better of the two due to the sheer quality of the instrument but the other strat sounds fantastic and also great for jazz (and other styles of course).

[Jonathan0996]

I think if I were shopping for a strat I'd try several and find the one that felt right and spoke to me. You might eventually decide to replace the pickup, but you might decide the stock pickup works for you.

Generally, I think that classic style single coil strat pickups work just fine. I also think you'll get more mileage out of experimenting with strings, pick, pickup height, setup and picking technique. Give it all time, keep your ears open and you'll find what you're looking for. Good luck with your search.

[Average Joe]

If you dont have a strat already I’d suggest trying one with a neck humbucker as well as the usual sss versions. Although i can get a perfectly nice jazz sound with a single coil, a PAFish humbucker in the neck position is imho easier to get there. A million players do it to teles.

as for the single coil option, i find it easier to get a sound on an amp with a mid control, cause it does need a bit of boosting.

Flatwounds help, but just a slightly bigger set of roundwound also improve sound and response for jazz work.

one thing that isnt often mentioned is the pick. A lot of that strat character is in the attack so a pick which smoothen that can be nice. A dunlop 203 or 207 for instance is less clicky than a Jazz III.

[citizenk74]

1. Stock pups set low. I like mine nearly flush with the PG.

2. Flatwound strings. I like 11s; 12s are even jazzier.

3. Dunlop 205s, worn in. I blunt the tips just a bit with a nail file and polish them with the coarse side of a leather belt.

4. Alternatively, Dunlop Jazz IIs in black plastic, again worn in a little bit, are a bit grippier.

5. Relax. Clear the mind. Play.

[wkmandeville]

Slightly different approach, but I find that the strat-sized goldfoil from Mojo Pickups in the neck really gets me the jazz sound I want. It's really responsive to picking dynamics, so a little bit of variety in attack goes a long way.

[Bach5G]

Actually, all I wanted to know was the difference in sound between the tweed and blackface eras. I know it mainly applies to the 50s and 60s amps but I’ve heard it used in relation to pickups.

I gather blackface is a scooped tone, whereas tweed has more mids, less highs. That suggests to me that the latter might be preferable in a J situation.

StewMac is selling a MIM Fender body with HSH routing. That interests me. Very versatile.

I do like the traditional look though and I’ve got a few single coils on my shelf.

[citizenk74]

Slightly different approach, but I find that the strat-sized goldfoil from Mojo Pickups in the neck really gets me the jazz sound I want. It's really responsive to picking dynamics, so a little bit of variety in attack goes a long way.

[citizenk74]

Actually, all I wanted to know was the difference in sound between the tweed and blackface eras. I know it mainly applies to the 50s and 60s amps but I’ve heard it used in relation to pickups.

I gather blackface is a scooped tone, whereas tweed has more mids, less highs. That suggests to me that the latter might be preferable in a J situation.

StewMac is selling a MIM Fender body with HSH routing. That interests me. Very versatile.

I do like the traditional look though and I’ve got a few single coils on my shelf.

I'm the lucky possessor of a wide-panel (or "TV Front") tweed Deluxe - octal preamp, field-coil speaker. It is indeed well suited for Jazz. And blues. And funk. And fusion
And....

[Cunamara]

A few other jazz Strat videos: Chris Crocco and our own rpjazzguitar:

[pingu]

1106357[/URL]]If you dont have a strat already I’d suggest trying one with a neck humbucker as well as the usual sss versions. Although i can get a perfectly nice jazz sound with a single coil, a PAFish humbucker in the neck position is imho easier to get there. A million players do it to teles

Ive just got me a strat style pacifica
I’m thinking of putting a humbucker in the
neck position
any recommendations ?
I want a warm jazz sound

[rpjazzguitar]

I use a Duncan Lil 59 in a Strat Copy. I think it sounds pretty good. It's darker than the stock pickup.

It's not likely to give you Wes or Kenny Burrell's tone.

Some of my posts on the Improv thread are with that guitar, but I used my practice rig which is a Korg PX5D (which doesn't sound that great) into an old Crate practice amp. Then, just into my phone with the phone's mic. The guitar can sound better than you hear on the clips.

I use the original middle pickup at times, which gets pretty close to a classic Strat single coil neck pickup tone.

[citizenk74]

I use a Duncan Lil 59 in a Strat Copy. I think it sounds pretty good. It's darker than the stock pickup.

It's not likely to give you Wes or Kenny Burrell's tone.

Some of my posts on the Improv thread are with that guitar, but I used my practice rig which is a Korg PX5D (which doesn't sound that great) into an old Crate practice amp. Then, just into my phone with the phone's mic. The guitar can sound better than you hear on the clips.

I use the original middle pickup at times, which gets pretty close to a classic Strat single coil neck pickup tone.

Plus One for the Lil' '59. Great pickup! Hot and rich!

[Average Joe]

Ive just got me a strat style pacifica
I’m thinking of putting a humbucker in the
neck position
any recommendations ?
I want a warm jazz sound

Of the full sized humbuckers I like Duncan 59s in a strat. Not the warmest, but it's a very goldilocks kind of sound in an alder bodied strat.