Vintage Koontz Archtop

**timc100** · 03-11-2021, 05:11 PM

Hello All,

I haven't posted here before but I have enjoyed the content. I don't have many folks in my life who really "get" into this stuff much so I wanted to share with you all because I'm super pumped. After years of working up to it I was finally able to pull the trigger on this amazing Koontz archtop that I purchased from my teacher. Based on some little indicators: the signature on headstock, the tailpiece - I am guessing this was one of his earlier models and probably made mid-60s (there is no sticker/label on the inside) Thought it was played extensively it is in incredible condition, especially after I had taken it into an expert to restore it. It's a massive thing - 18" body Super 400 style.

I know these guitars aren't common but if anyone has some info on the history of this one I'd love to hear it. Also - is the PBS special available about Koontz and the Krive collection? I've seen it referred to but cannot find more then a couple short clips.

**JGinNJ** · 03-12-2021, 11:01 AM

Congratulations, that's an awesome guitar from a legendary builder. I grew up not far from where Sam Koontz made them, in Linden, NJ., and he had a local reputation. The only one I ever saw "in the wild" was Harry Leahy's. He was a great jazz guitarist and had many students. The story goes he bought it from Pat Martino.

**Max405** · 03-12-2021, 11:16 AM

WOW!
You dont see may of those in a lifetime!
Welcome aboard and I am glad you shared this with us. Know what you mean about Not many people who get into this stuff. When I start talking about it in my house, my wife and son tend to fall asleep. I dont even bother anymore.
Great pics, great guitar.
Keep postin!
JD

**Tom Karol** · 03-12-2021, 11:40 AM

Talk about awesome-looking headstocks ... !

**citizenk74** · 03-12-2021, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by timc100

Hello All,

I haven't posted here before but I have enjoyed the content. I don't have many folks in my life who really "get" into this stuff much so I wanted to share with you all because I'm super pumped. After years of working up to it I was finally able to pull the trigger on this amazing Koontz archtop that I purchased from my teacher. Based on some little indicators: the signature on headstock, the tailpiece - I am guessing this was one of his earlier models and probably made mid-60s (there is no sticker/label on the inside) Thought it was played extensively it is in incredible condition, especially after I had taken it into an expert to restore it. It's a massive thing - 18" body Super 400 style.

I know these guitars aren't common but if anyone has some info on the history of this one I'd love to hear it. Also - is the PBS special available about Koontz and the Krive collection? I've seen it referred to but cannot find more then a couple short clips.

That is indeed a rare and handsome instrument! Congratulations, and play it in good health!

**timc100** · 03-12-2021, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by JGinNJ

Congratulations, that's an awesome guitar from a legendary builder. I grew up not far from where Sam Koontz made them, in Linden, NJ., and he had a local reputation. The only one I ever saw "in the wild" was Harry Leahy's. He was a great jazz guitarist and had many students. The story goes he bought it from Pat Martino.

Harry Leahy is a great player - I have an LP of he and Steve Gilmore I really love, great picture of the Koontz on the cover and he has the same model style just made a few years later (my assumption) with the classic Koontz tailpeace and newer headstock. Of course his stuff with Phil Woods is awesome too.

**timc100** · 03-12-2021, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Max405

WOW!
You dont see may of those in a lifetime!
Welcome aboard and I am glad you shared this with us. Know what you mean about Not many people who get into this stuff. When I start talking about it in my house, my wife and son tend to fall asleep. I dont even bother anymore.
Great pics, great guitar.
Keep postin!
JD

Yeah my wife was happy I got this so she could maybe hear about it a little less... but they are winning out because my two daughters are conspiring against any practicing at the moment! I have actually been playing on a classical instrument almost exclusively for 4 years - both classical rep and Jazz work - so its super strange feeling to play on steel strings and such narrow string spacing.

**Midnight Blues** · 03-12-2021, 12:35 PM

Lovely! Congrats, HNGD

and play her in good health!

**WilliamScott** · 03-12-2021, 12:52 PM

Gorgeous.

**paulkogut** · 03-12-2021, 01:57 PM

Legendary Chicago guitarist Jack Cecchini has at least a few Koontz guitars, you can sift through his website for some pics...
Jack Cecchini

PK

**JFranck** · 03-12-2021, 02:16 PM

Beautiful guitar ! I always dreamed to have a Koontz...
The tailpiece probably german made is the same as on Framus Attila Zoller.

From the Harry Leahay Still Waters LP :
Vintage Koontz Archtop-hleahey-jpg

Pat Martino Starbright
Vintage Koontz Archtop-pat-martino-jpg

Steve Giordano
Vintage Koontz Archtop-stevegiordano-jpg

**skykomishone** · 03-12-2021, 02:34 PM

Wow! Thanks for sharing. It's great that this treasure is in the hands of someone that values it like you do. I bet it sounds incredible. Make lot's of great music that you love with it. Congratulations!

**wintermoon** · 03-12-2021, 03:32 PM

Congrats! that's the only one I've seen w/that tailpiece.
My old pal Howard Krive bought his teacher Harry Leahy's Koontz and at least one from Ceccini and bought mine too [wish I still had that one!]

**timc100** · 03-12-2021, 04:01 PM

This actually is a Jack Koontz. He played it as his main instrument until Sam made him one that looks like Steve Giordano's. This one is in his headstock photo from when he was young.

**timc100** · 03-12-2021, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by JFranck

Beautiful guitar ! I always dreamed to have a Koontz...
The tailpiece probably german made is the same as on Framus Attila Zoller.

From the Harry Leahay Still Waters LP :
Vintage Koontz Archtop-hleahey-jpg

Pat Martino Starbright
Vintage Koontz Archtop-pat-martino-jpg

Steve Giordano
Vintage Koontz Archtop-stevegiordano-jpg

That is very interesting. What's the backstory on that style of tailpiece? I think this was an earlier guitar of his and Jack said he would go to Germany to hand-pick spruce for the tops.

**Gitterbug** · 03-12-2021, 04:06 PM

A great-looking guitar guitar, although I could do with a less pompous blade. For a long time, I've been puzzled by Gibson vs. individual luthiers. The factory has logged in well over the century, with ups and downs I'm sure, while luthiers only have max. 40 years to make themselves known. Premium old violins bear the name of their makers. A few Italian names also top the roster of archtop guitar makers of the 20th century. But how long will they be recognized, and what about the rest of what's quite a crowd today? Will the D'Angelicos, D'Aquistos, Benedettos, Buscarinos etc. be the Stradivari, Amati etc. of tomorrow, or will Gibson overwhelm?

**2bornot2bop** · 03-12-2021, 04:18 PM

Congratulations timc100!

That’s a gorgeous vintage archtop! One only has to look at that Koontz to imagine all the stories it has to tell. Play her like she deserves to be played!

**bluejaybill** · 03-12-2021, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by JGinNJ

Congratulations, that's an awesome guitar from a legendary builder. I grew up not far from where Sam Koontz made them, in Linden, NJ., and he had a local reputation. The only one I ever saw "in the wild" was Harry Leahy's. He was a great jazz guitarist and had many students. The story goes he bought it from Pat Martino.

Yes, the only one I saw was Harry's, he was my teacher in my early jazz formative stages. A wonderful guy and a great teacher. I believe he also taught Vic Juris? And I believe Vic and he published some method books together. While we're on the subject, Harry was very influenced from studying with the legendary Dennis Sandole in Philadelphia, whom I believe Pat studied with as well, as did Coltrane I believe. Aside from tunes, Harry had me learn all 4 inversions in every 4 string group. And we also went through all of the modes, and the modes of the harmonic and melodic minor. Harry would write out a study based on the scale of the week, and I had to do the same. Very hard work, and very valuable!

Concerning his Koontz, I don't know about the Martino connection but if memory serves, they both owned one at the same time. Great sounding guitars, both Pat and Harry got a very dark fat sound out of them, darker than most people got from Gibsons. It was very intimidating to come to lessons and see that big archtop; I was still playing solid bodies then. Funny, I can't remember ever having played it!

**timc100** · 03-12-2021, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by bluejaybill

Yes, the only one I saw was Harry's, he was my teacher in my early jazz formative stages. A wonderful guy and a great teacher. I believe he also taught Vic Juris? And I believe Vic and he published some method books together. While we're on the subject, Harry was very influenced from studying with the legendary Dennis Sandole in Philadelphia, whom I believe Pat studied with as well, as did Coltrane I believe. Aside from tunes, Harry had me learn all 4 inversions in every 4 string group. And we also went through all of the modes, and the modes of the harmonic and melodic minor. Harry would write out a study based on the scale of the week, and I had to do the same. Very hard work, and very valuable!

Concerning his Koontz, I don't know about the Martino connection but if memory serves, they both owned one at the same time. Great sounding guitars, both Pat and Harry got a very dark fat sound out of them, darker than most people got from Gibsons. It was very intimidating to come to lessons and see that big archtop; I was still playing solid bodies then. Funny, I can't remember ever having played it!

I love hearing about lesson stories from people - how I wish to have been a fly on the wall during lessons with all the greats, luckily we get that insight with Ted Green's who's lessons seemed so relaxed and demanding/comprehensive. Jack has been a life-changing teacher for me, I feel incredibly lucky. I have done my best to be a good student even though I've not had not been able to practice nearly enough (due to having 2 children). I have over 150 pages of notes each by bullet point in word docs separated by year (started just after Christmas 2015), and in early 2017 I started recording all of our lessons + taking notes. I hope to continue learning from these teachings on jazz and classical guitar the rest of my life.

**Hammertone** · 03-13-2021, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by timc100

That is very interesting. What's the backstory on that style of tailpiece? I think this was an earlier guitar of his and Jack said he would go to Germany to hand-pick spruce for the tops.

ABM (AB Müller) makes a variety of high-end metal guitar hardware.They supplied archtop tailpieces to virtually all of the West German archtop guitar makers throughout the '50s, '60s and '70s. Some of these were unique to certain brands, and some were available as aftermarket products.They discontinued almost all of them in the past decade, following the death of Klaus Müller and the subsquent sale of the company, but, under new ownership by Berlin-based Jowo-Schreibfeder, they still make a few American-style archtop tailpieces, in particular Byrdland, "Fingers" and ES-335 "Diamond"-style models.

Koontz typically used ABM's fanciest archtop tailpiece, the Model 1281, as shown on the Harry Leahy and Pat Martino guitars. He also used a custom cut-down version of the same tailpiece. Koontz added the inlaid ebony insert. Another American builder who used the 1281 was Aaron Cowles (Unity Guitars). The OP's guitar uses an ABM tailpiece that was specific to some Framus archtop guitar models, such as the AZ-10, and is not typically seen on Koontz guitars.

**Gitterbug** · 03-13-2021, 02:25 AM

Hammertone, your pool of knowledge is incredible!

**timc100** · 03-13-2021, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Hammertone

ABM (AB Müller) makes a variety of high-end metal guitar hardware.They supplied archtop tailpieces to virtually all of the West German archtop guitar makers throughout the '50s, '60s and '70s. Some of these were unique to certain brands, and some were avaiable as aftermarket products.They discontinued almost all of them in the past decade, but still make a few American-style archtop tailpieces, in particular Byrdland, "Fingers"and ES-335 "Diamond"-style models.

Koontz typically used ABM's fanciest archtop tailpiece, the Model 1281, as shown on the Harry Leahy and Pat Martino guitars. He also used a cut-down version of the same tailpiece. Koontz added the inlaid ebony insert. Another American builder who used the 1281 was Aaron Cowles (Unity Guitars). The OP's guitar uses an ABM tailpiece that was specific to some Framus archtop guitar models, such as the AZ-10, and is not typically seen on Koontz guitars.

Incredible detail - I really appreciate it, thanks for sharing. You're the type of person I'd like to have a beer with and learn all the ins and outs of archtop building around those times. Here are a few other phots of close ups of the tailpiece. I wonder if this a cheaper/lesser version then what Koontz ended up using - not as ornate? It is incredibly solid and heavy - the guy I had restore it (Danche in Forest Park IL) really buffed it up and made it look close to new, was very faded and showing age.

Side question - how do I flip images right way up? Not sure why these are all sideways.

**JFranck** · 03-13-2021, 01:13 PM

@ timc100 : gorgeous photos!

@ Hammertone : thanks for the precision, I didn't know the name of the company who made these tailpieces for Framus. They were available as parts in this 60s Framus catalog
Vintage Koontz Archtop-framusp39-jpg

**timc100** · 03-13-2021, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by JFranck

@ timc100 : gorgeous photos!

@ Hammertone : thanks for the precision, I didn't know the name of the company who made these tailpieces for Framus. They were available as parts in this 60s Framus catalog
Vintage Koontz Archtop-framusp39-jpg

That's an amazing find! Super interesting to see this. Looks like Guild used some of these designs right?

**2bornot2bop** · 03-13-2021, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Hammertone

ABM (AB Müller) makes a variety of high-end metal guitar hardware.They supplied archtop tailpieces to virtually all of the West German archtop guitar makers throughout the '50s, '60s and '70s. Some of these were unique to certain brands, and some were avaiable as aftermarket products.They discontinued almost all of them in the past decade, but still make a few American-style archtop tailpieces, in particular Byrdland, "Fingers"and ES-335 "Diamond"-style models.

Koontz typically used ABM's fanciest archtop tailpiece, the Model 1281, as shown on the Harry Leahy and Pat Martino guitars. He also used a cut-down version of the same tailpiece. Koontz added the inlaid ebony insert. Another American builder who used the 1281 was Aaron Cowles (Unity Guitars). The OP's guitar uses an ABM tailpiece that was specific to some Framus archtop guitar models, such as the AZ-10, and is not typically seen on Koontz guitars.

Is that the 1281 on the Super Patrick?