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What is the best archtop out there in the $3,500-4,500 price range? Has anyone played the Martin CF1? I'm looking for suggestions. Thanks.
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02-22-2010 07:46 PM
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In that price range, for a new guitar, I like the Sadowskys. Either a ES-175-like Jim Hall model:
Or their bigger model, the LS-17 (I like the 25 1/2" scale!)
Used, I'd look for a Gibson, but I don't know what sort of Gibby lands in that range.
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Thanks. I'm going to be in NYC this Friday. I sent them an email. If they have a showroom I plan to stop by. (The LS17 would be even more awesome with some inlays on the fretboard.)
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In that price range, I would consider Sadowsky or Heritage as producers.
Sadowsky Jimmy Bruno or Jim Hall models or Heritage Eagle or Sweet 16.
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They're in Brooklyn last time I checked. Call and ask what subway and stop. The LS17 looks sharp. I'll bet it sounds great.
Originally Posted by dvd5300
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There seems to be a trend for less or no inlay in archtops, even top of the line models. Originally Posted by dvd5300
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Not sure why. I think they help (me) locate the 7th, 9th, 12th positions faster. (My eyes aren't what they used to be.) I'll be curious to hear what it would cost to have inlays added to the fretboard of an LS17. $500?? As far as the Martin CF1 archtop goes, is that one that makes the grade? On my way to NY I'll be touring the Martiin factory. I'll get a chance to play the CF1 in their pickin' room. I was just wondering if the "jazz" community has embraced this model.
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Originally Posted by dvd5300
Sounds like you're doing the guitar tour. Nazareth, PA to NYC. The CF1 was designed by Dale Unger. His stuff gets' good reviews.
Have you thought about waititng for the next guitar show? I don't know when the next one is but I think they're an annual event. One in Philly and the other on Long Island.
All the builder go and some of the stores set up a booth too. I went one year and saw stuff from Comins, Sadowsky, Dale Unger, M Campellone and others all under one roof. Plus a lot of the local vintage shops had reps there. As an added plus, They had entertaiment like Howard Alden, Jimmy Bruno and even Rick Derringer.
Just a thought
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The Martin was designed by Dale Unger. I have played a couple of them. I found them to be pretty nondescript, but of fine construction. A bit pricey for what they are, but with the Martin name on it, you are paying some for the branding. As others have mentioned, there are other options that are very nice for the same money.
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When I'm locating frets, I use the dots on the top side of the neck -- I only use the inlay dots/blocks to locate frets to find where someone is playing! I'd have to leave forward to see the front of my neck, but then maybe you don't have a belly as big as mine to hand your guitar on! Originally Posted by dvd5300
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The LS17 is a beauty I think. I'm with Big Daddy - I like the lack of fretboard inlay. Also love the clean look of the ebony bridge and tailpiece, especially combined with the black pickup cover. 25.5" scale length, plus I like the flame on the top too. With a light honey blond finish, this could be my axe!
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Looking again, I have to say Sadowsky have really got the headstock shape just right too. I think a lot of good thinking has gone into these designs!
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I suppose this is picking on another guitar (and not that kind of picking) but for my tastes anyhowdy, the Heritage Golden Eagle is the opposite of the LS-17. Each to his own... Originally Posted by Meggy
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A very nice instrument to play I'm sure, and as you say each to his own. Not keen on that thick white binding though, especially with the dark sunburst finish it does seem OTT to me.
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The strings don't collide with each other on the Sadowsky headstock - I'm no luthier but that seems like it must contribute to accurate tuning. Originally Posted by Meggy
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Hadn't thought of that Bill but also a good point - I was thinking more aesthetically. Maybe sometimes aesthetics and functunality go together I think. Originally Posted by Bill C
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Does anyone have any info on the Philly or Long Island guitar show? I'd love to have all of the archtops in one location to browse. Save me some drivin' time.
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I can answer both. I recently went to New York and played a ton of different archtops at Guitars N Jazz and Golden age. I was totally blown away by a Campellone. Almost everything i played was nice, great even ... but for $5k+ nothing seemed that amazing except for the Campellone (which was less than 5k). Originally Posted by dvd5300
I own the Martin CF-1. It replaced all my other guitars as favorite (a few even got sold). Don't be fooled by the laminate body. it sounds beautiful unplugged: articulate, open, and it projects wonderfully. The Kent Armstrong pickup is just right as well but i've found that i needed to use roundwounds for the perfect / most defined sound. I got a chance at Golden Age to try a "real" Dale Unger American Archtop, and found the sound to be very close if not identical ... the only thing that bummed me out was that i liked the neck on the American Archtop over my Martin. The AA neck was much thicker. That is my only complaint though. I paid $2k remotely via craigslist. You can find them monthly on ebay for about the same. I saw one go for $1500 recently ... i think it was brand new and a store was trying to get rid of it. Really well made guitars and totally worth the current used price.
It's funny you say that because i had the same reaction but in the opposite direction: i was playing lots of guitars in a store (different trip earlier this year), and they all felt samey / generic / stiff, and i spied the CF-1 in a corner and acoustically the sound just jumped out of the body at me. I agree about the new retail cost: i wouldn't pay the original asking price of $4k cause that is used Campellone territory pricing (and a bunch of others), but used, it is worth every cent. FWIW i didn't buy the same CF-1 i saw in a store (wanted close to new retail price for a consignment) but still felt the same excitement about the one i got. Originally Posted by derek
I hope to some day own a Campellone Deluxe, but even if i do, the CF-1 is staying.Last edited by spiral; 10-02-2010 at 05:52 PM.
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Spiral, could you give any specifics about the Campellone that you felt really made it stand out as superior?? As a builder, I'm always interested to hear these things.
Thanks.
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Apologies for jumping in but I own a Campellone. I custom ordered it and have had it for around 6 years. I do not work for Mark. I am just a VERY satisfied customer. I have bought lots of other guitars (Gibson Heritage, Fender D'Aquisto, Custom Luthier) but Mark's guitar stand out for several reasons Originally Posted by DaveS
First, aesthetics. Every piece of wood looks great . The flame/quilt is beautiful and well bookmatched. Same with the spruce. The rosewood/ebony bits have a nice grain and pattern while the figerboard is consistent in grain pattern. His basic design is the L-5 Style (I think) and that design is timeless. His work is impecable. no slop anywhere , everything made to perfection.
The wood also smells great. Like it's been around awhile.
Soundwise the tone is balanced. I have an oval hole model so it is a supposed to be a little bassier but none of the bass notes overwhelm the high side. The high note are not "sharp" but "smooth". (I mean like that piercing sound that you get sometimes when you flatpick) It's not a loud guitar compared to say an F-hole model but it has good sustain and decay rate and the tone is really sweet.
Playability wise I use 11-50 with lower action but it accomodated 12-54 without a problem. (It might even get louder if I go back to the heavier strings ) The neck is comfortable.
Te best part is that I orderd his standard model with a quilted back and sides upgrade plus mounted pick up. He also upgraded the pickguard and headstock plate to rosewood, no extra charge. It cost me $4250 delivered to NJ
My guitar appears in his website gallery on pge 2 or 3. . Give it a look.
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Keep in mind i am concerned with acoustic sound. I have no opinion about electric sound. Originally Posted by DaveS
John probably gave a more complete description than i will. For me it was simple: comfort and sound.
As John said, it is pretty much a Gibson clone. Mark is not ashamed about his love for Gibson and thinks they hit on perfect design. Interesting interview:
mark-campellone
For me the sound had the qualities of what people love about vintage instruments. The wood sounded like it had really opened up, so it was lively and every note was excited. I have a simplistic indicator in my mind: stiff vs. hollow. Many modern guitars, or guitars that sound poor acoustically, are stiff or aren't very resonant. A good archtop sounds hollow, like you can hear the full sound of the string. McCarthy Stringed Instruments have guitars that have that similar quality to me (though i haven't played one). Check out the clips on his site.
For comfort i liked that the neck was thick like older archtops.
Another member here, Ron, has one and has 3 youtube clips. YouTube - Kanaal van RonIovine
Aesthetically i like the plainer look of the standard and deluxe, but the differences between the models are primarily cosmetic (unless you are swapping woods).
BTW Dave, your guitars look beautiful. I would love to try one someday!Last edited by spiral; 10-02-2010 at 05:56 PM.
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Yes, I like the Bohemian. Your pricing looks very competitive.
If you asked me for some marketing advice I would see about getting a few untis out some of the more specialized guitar shops on consignment.
I'm pretty sure buliders like Henry Verri and Bernie Lehman do this just to help get their name around.
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Thanks guys.....I appreciate the comments.
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