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I was researching sales of vintage lefty 335’s the other day and realized that I just missed the deal of a lifetime. At the end of December someone listed a near mint left handed 1968 cherry 335 on Ebay for a Buy It Now price of $2600. This would have been in the search results I check every day, but I simply didn’t check in the few hours in which it was live. As someone who has bought and sold lefty guitars as a hobby for 20 years, the realization that I had missed this by a few hours left me in despair.
But then I had another thought. This guitar could easily sell for 8k or more if it were listed by a reputable dealer (vintage lefties in this condition are impossibly rare). The seller was almost certainly an older person who simply didn’t know what she had. After clicking the Buy It Now button and surfing a tidal wave of endorphins for 10 minutes, would I have felt compelled to tell her the truth? That if she simply took the time to take the guitar to a reputable dealer (any number of whom I could recommend in her area) she could get nearly 4x as much for it? In other words, would my conscience have stepped in to ruin the deal of a lifetime?
I think in my case the answer is yes. If I bought it without saying anything, every time I looked at it on its stand it would remind me, with its charming 60’s Michigan accent, that it cost me my soul. Or at least a ton of karma.
What would you all have done?
Last edited by conchmusic; 02-09-2021 at 10:46 PM.
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02-09-2021 03:26 PM
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I have more than once told an eager seller that what they had was worth more that they were asking, and offered the most that I was able to pay at that time. Each time they took what I offered, but we're not talking thousands of dollars. I couldn't live with myself.
On the other hand, I once bought a guitar from a kid's mother to raise $ for college. I paid the asking, which was much more that it was worth, which was 0$. It was a complete wreck - unplayable and useless due to various butcheries. I tried multiple times to sell it for parts or give it away on a trade-in just to get it out of my house. Short version - I paid a reluctant repairman big bucks to refinish, repair, and refret the guitar, which remains a personal favorite. Years later, the now Degreed and employed by the US government grown man approached me through a friend about a buy back. At what I paid for it. I said, cover my repair costs and we'll be good.
Surprise, surprise, no deal.
Go figure.
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This is always a difficult question. If you went to look at a used car that you wanted and the seller was asking way less than could be had, would you decline to buy it for that asking price?
Last edited by Woody Sound; 02-09-2021 at 04:36 PM.
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I don't see your role as a buyer in telling someone how to price something.
$2600 may not be what it's worth, but it ain't chicken feed. How did they come up with that number?
Maybe it was an ex-spouse just selling off her ex's guitar to get it out of the house.
Anyway, it was $50 that would be different, but a $2800 guitar I wouldn't try to psychoanalyze the seller too much.
I have never had a bargain that good, but I have had a few good deals. I paid $150 for what was supposed to be a MIM Tele with some mods and which had been heavily relic'ed. It turned out to be a great guitar and a good bargain, but it's not something he could have walked into GC with and walked out with several hundred dollars.
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it wasn't priced @ $260, that was $2600 more than she had, and since it was appraised @ 3k, that's how she arrived at the price. apparently she didn't take into consideration the price may have gone up in the 20 yrs since the appraisal. I don't like taking advantage of anyone, particularly older folks but if you didn't buy it someone else would [and did apparently] you could have tried to warn her but if she had it for sale as a buy it now there probably wasn't enough time left.
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While the value of a guitar is a highly subjective business, I wouldn't buy a guitar someone had badly under-priced simply based on a lack of information. Maybe in a 'buy now' where if I didn't, someone else would. Or if they still want to sell after being informed to get money quickly, fine. As for judging others who seek out this scenario, not for me to say. It's certainly common enough. It's what guitar show resellers do. And pawn brokers. And used car lots.
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The OP didn't know who the seller was--just assumed it was an older unknowledgeable person. It could have been an ex-wife, someone who inherited it from a deceased parent, a criminal who stole it...
If you're dealing with someone face to face, I do think it's different, and one might ask how that price was arrived at.
But selling things anonymously on Ebay or some other site...no responsibility to the seller except PayPal them the money you agreed on.
BTW, just my experience buying/selling stuff on Ebay and Craigslist over the years...if it's too good to be true, that's usually because it is. It's a scam or a criminal fencing something or a fake.
I replied to a car ad on CL a few years ago for a "great deal" on some convertible something or other and spent a couple of days emailing back and forth before I realized it wasn't a real deal.
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An example of ethical behaviour is something "bad" you wouldn't do evenso nobody could see you doing it. It applies perfectly in your case if you would have alerted that person.
Very ethical behaviour indeed!
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An inflated dealer price is usually something to ignore, not use as any 'standard.'
Also, any third party involvement in a private transaction is unethical and maybe illegal.
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I am older now, and more sensitive for varous reasons. I just could not do it without explaining to the person to MY satisfaction that they should be able to get much more for that guitar.
These days, I still wake up at night with guilty dreams of when my past actions had the unintended consequence of hurting someone else when I was younger. I even wonder sometimes when I refuse to give a handout/assistance to a stranger asking for money, wondering if I did the right thing. My older mind features a strict conscience.
Now if the seller was a jerk? I would have had no problem paying that price and moving on without looking back.
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I think Dr. Jeff has some good ideas on this.
Some years ago, I found a Klein electric on sale for $2500; the seller was a keyboardist who had purchased it (new) for his studio, and didn't need it anymore. He had access to the same internet I did, so he knew the market (or "should" have). It was in perfect condition (although I didn't like the pickups -- no biggie!), so I grabbed it. I played it for a few months, then sold it to a thankful buyer for $5000; then I purchased my first Forshage ergo guitar (which was $2500 at the time), and pocketed the rest. No one was harmed in this story.
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I'd have bought it. This moral buyer crap can go down the toilet with the real crap
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Ah, so only people who have personal qualities that you approve of are worthy of moral treatment?
Originally Posted by AlsoRan
I’m older, too (aren’t we all older than before, though?) - in my wasted youth, I was very judgmental of people who did not behave in the ways I thought appropriate - let’s say a “jerk”, for instance. After broad experience with a variety of people over long periods, I have come to believe that personality and temperament are as inherent in a person, from birth, as their eye color, height, or intelligence, health defects, gifts and shortcomings of skill, etc. Punishing a person because he is a jerk is like punishing a person for being short, nearsighted or asthmatic, in my view. I might avoid being around them on a regular basis if I can, but they don’t deserve punishment because of a temperamental defect they probably inherited from one or more of their ancestors or an accident of brain chemistry.
The moral question for me isn’t what the person “deserves”, but rather what kind of person I want to be, or at least believe myself to be. So, I’d be inclined to tell or show the seller that they are perhaps undervaluing the guitar, not so much to do a good deed for their benefit but rather for my own conscience. Even if the person is a jerk. Better to miss a “steal” on a guitar (funny how we use that term to describe an amazing deal in our favor) than to “wake up at night with guilty dreams”.
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A strong reaction that sounds defensive. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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Yeah sorry, I'm in a really REALLY bad mood most of the time. I'm sick of quarrentine I miss my family, I miss playing music with people, I miss taking my kids out to run errands. I miss it all man. So I overreact to threads. Originally Posted by rabbit
I want to be better, but I'm not.
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AllanAllen,
I got you wrong, I regret it.
I sympathize with your struggles.
Best to you and yours.
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Nah man. I needed the check. Originally Posted by rabbit
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You couldn't know what you got until it was in your hands. So, it is premature to appraise the guitar from afar. Secondly, the seller may want the quickest sell possible for a variety of reasons. She may have looked at right handed guitar prices and priced it low enough to sell asap.
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Like I said, she priced off a 3K appraisal 20 yrs earlier.
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The little old lady who does not know what she is selling is the oldest scam in the book.
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Have you met my wife? Originally Posted by Litterick
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I've long decided to trust that sellers are adults that know what they're doing. So I take the cheap as offered and ignore the over priced stuff
I don't comment publicly on peoples prices. Neither when low like here (I'd just buy it off course) or when they ask something absurd. I only get involved if I'm actually interested in buying and even then I do it in private and not as a public debate.. Nothing more infuriating than people with no interest of buying commenting publicly other peoples prices.
I usually price my stuff fair, but if someone wants to have a go at selling a guitar at 150% of new price then let them have at it.
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Usually prices that are too good to be true, are well, too good to be true. I would have thought long and hard if I wanted to take the risk, and in my mind that is what it would be. There could be a payoff for me in the end, but more often than not, it really doesn't work that way. All investments come with risk, if you have the money to invest, and are willing to take the risk, it may or may not payoff. That seems like simple business to me.
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Reality check: If you dont buy it someone else will. Greed on Ebay is rampant.
IMHO Buy it, then negotiate additional monies to adjust the final cost. End of story.
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I like your thinking. Originally Posted by BickertRules
Ah, so only people who have personal qualities that you approve of are worthy of moral treatment?
I’m older, too (aren’t we all older than before, though?) - in my wasted youth, I was very judgmental of people who did not behave in the ways I thought appropriate - let’s say a “jerk”, for instance. After broad experience with a variety of people over long periods, I have come to believe that personality and temperament are as inherent in a person, from birth, as their eye color, height, or intelligence, health defects, gifts and shortcomings of skill, etc. Punishing a person because he is a jerk is like punishing a person for being short, nearsighted or asthmatic, in my view. I might avoid being around them on a regular basis if I can, but they don’t deserve punishment because of a temperamental defect they probably inherited from one or more of their ancestors or an accident of brain chemistry.
The moral question for me isn’t what the person “deserves”, but rather what kind of person I want to be, or at least believe myself to be. So, I’d be inclined to tell or show the seller that they are perhaps undervaluing the guitar, not so much to do a good deed for their benefit but rather for my own conscience. Even if the person is a jerk. Better to miss a “steal” on a guitar (funny how we use that term to describe an amazing deal in our favor) than to “wake up at night with guilty dreams”.
But in my moral code, if I was trying to help the person out by explaining the value and they mouthed off at me then I would feel I had done my part. To me, this person is not receptive to kindness at that point, and subsequently will miss out on an opportunity to maximize the amount of money they could receive. They did it to themselves. It was their choice to not communicate with me. So, I honor their approach to life and their choices.
Very, very simple for me.
Obviously, you can't live with that decision and you would keep trying to work with the person, despite any verbal abuse you received. That could be a turning point in that person's life and could change their attitude, to the betterment of society as a whole.
I would just count it as a missed opportunity, move on with my new guitar. I would not begrudge the person. I would respect their wishes.
I don't put emotion in a lot of things. I just try to look at fairness and giving a fair opportunity. Once that is done, it is what it is. Other people are taking up the energy that I might have spent wrangling with that person.
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