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Originally Posted by wkmandeville
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01-12-2021 02:15 PM
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Nice! I might build a 5E3 clone soon.
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Originally Posted by Zigracer
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Originally Posted by Sam Sherry
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
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Originally Posted by Littlemark
Last edited by Little Jay; 01-17-2021 at 04:20 AM.
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Originally Posted by Littlemark
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Thats a pretty sweet looking Champ!
I too have been bitten by the build your own amp bug, nice podcast by Jason at the Fretboard Journal
"The Truth about Vintage Amps" by Skip Simmons ..I am sooooo addicted.... can't even play my guitar
because so much wire twisting, I done split me finger!!
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Thanks papawooley! Yes, it’s very satisfying and fun to build your own amp.
I am very in love with the sound of this little Champ!
(Oh recording, shoot, let’s see if I can do one in my lunch break today)
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I built a champ clone two years ago (then a 5E3 clone a year later and now planning my 3rd build).
At first I found it unusable without an EQ infront of it, so I added a tonestack, like the later vibrochamp got (but also with mid knob), which can be "turned off", and did some more mods to it but still with the option to get more or less the original tone.
Later though I've started to like the very middy "tweed" tone more.
Here is a small demo with first 12 bars with tone stack then I "bypass" the tone stack (it has much more gain without the tone stack so I lower the volume to compensate) and do another 12 bars
Set up is:
guitar (ES175) -> champ clone -> cabinet with 12 inch Jensen P12Q -> Røde stereo videomic pro connected to headset jack (just mono) of my phone.
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Yes, I recognise that tone (without the EQ) from mine! I do like it a lot! My ES-125 sounds sooo woody and thunky through it (yes time for a recording...) and my Cooper ES-330 sounds simply great too!
I do use my Boss reverb pedal with it, ‘cause I’m so used to reverb.
Of course my mind is already wondering if a 5E3 would deliver that same kind of tone on stage-volume levels...... ;-)
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5E3 has its own thing going on. You will probably like it for what it is rather than just liking it for having champish tone at higher volumes.
It is a bit more friendly to single coil pickups but I (and many others) lowered the value of the coupling cap in one of the channels which makes is nicer to humbuckers.
If you upgrade the transformers in a champ you can use a 6L6 to get a bit more volume. (you probably need to adjust some component values in the power supply/filtering and bias circuits to get the most out of it.)
There is also a kit available called Uraltone jr. which I think is basically a champ with some extra features and two single ended power tubes. It supports different types of tubes, 6L6s for instance which should give around 20W output. They (Uraltone) are in Finland so ordering within EU is convenient. (I ordered their 5E3 kit).
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Champs really benefit from EQ pedals. They don't even come with a tone knob, the originals didn't even have an on/off switch.
My Champ can sometimes sound too muddy and boomy, other times too harsh in the highs depending on the venue.Of course sometimes it just sounds perfect by itself but an eq pedal goes a long way in making the amp more versatile. I guess that can be said for any amp but most amps come with at least some basic tone controls. Imagine using a Princeton or Deluxe Reverb with trebles and bass at 10 all the time (of course these amps would be even less usable without tone knobs but the point stands).
A lot of Champ's character is in it's mids but you can also cut the mids a bit to get more clean headroom and definition for chords when you need it.
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Some history:
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Yup, my Champ has the old style chassis without on/off switch (it’s integrated in the volume pot) and no tone knob. The only difference with the 5F1 schematic are the power caps: 20/10/10uf instead of 16/8/8, everything else is the same. Voltages right in the ball park with 185v on the 12ax7 anodes, 378v on the 6V6 anode and 325 on the 6V6 grid.
It is a little darker than my other amps, although more treble creeps in when you up the volume (too loud for at home!). It’s lovely and it has a nice complex mid voice. All my guitars automatically start to ‘thunk’! Some people will add a treble bypass cap over the volume pot for a brighter sound, but I love it the way it is. Perfect with the modern Jensen P10R (some say the Jensen RI’s are shrill and harsh but I don’t hear that at all! Wonderful speaker).
I have not tried this amp with an 8” speaker.
Mine stays clean to about 3/4 on the volume dial, with P90s.
Great amp for (low volume) jazz!!! I use my Boss FRV-1 reverb pedal and that emulates the spring reverb of my Twin Reverb perfectly (in fact: when I use it on my Twin I can set it so thatvI can’t distinguish between the Twin’s reverb and the pedal...).
Every guitarist should own a Champ.... ;-)Last edited by Little Jay; 02-15-2021 at 04:41 AM.
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Is your P10R 8 ohm or 4 ohm?
My Champ is the standard Fender one (57 Custom) with an 8 inch Weber speaker (4 ohm). But I have a Princeton with a 10 inch P10R (8 ohm). Both amps have detachable speaker plugs. I plugged the Champ into the Princeton's cab a couple of times but I'm worried about the slight impedance mismatch causing a damage in the Champ.Last edited by Tal_175; 02-08-2021 at 01:43 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
(Although my OT also has a 8 ohm tap.)
In general I read that a 100% impedance mismatch, either up or down, can be handled by most transformers.
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All this glorification has made me reconsider the Tweed Champ. I have always thought that they are overdrive machines for studio rockers but apparently they are more flexible.
Here in Finland a shop named Uraltone offers a Champ kit with tone pot. Would it destroy the ’magic’ of the Champ or make it just more useful little amp?
UralTone 5F1 tweed champ 2.0 rakennussarja
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Originally Posted by Herbie
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
Tone control on "max" should be like a 5f1 with a bright cap mod.
You can just disconnect the tone control to see if you prefer that sound.
So if you buy that kit you could also build a 5f1 circuit without a tone control if you prefer, and you can experiment with finding out what you prefer
If you come to the conclusion that you don't want the tone control, you can use its hole in the chassis for a different mod if you like.
I've ordered from uraltone, they are great.
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And finally a recording to demonstrate the sound of the Champ!
Recorded with an SM58 in front of the speaker. I tried to play Misty, wanted to keep it rhythmic instread of rubato..... needs some more work
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Sounds great! Nice job
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Originally Posted by Little Jay
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I feel I really need to post this update, because I am mighty surprised!
I took the Champ to the band rehearsal this afternoon. We were three: drums, bass, guitar. We don't play overly loud, but we are most certainly not quiet either! Drummer played with sticks.
And whattayaknow?!? This 5-watt Champ totally held it's ground! No, you can't play squeaky clean with deep punchy basses - it's not a Twin Reverb. But the Champ circuit in combination with the Jensen P10R seems to be tuned for the exact right bandwidth of frequencies that make the guitar perfectly audible in the band mix. Volume knob was about half up, full on the guitar. The Champ does not even distort then! Okay, it does give some hair on the double stops and hard hit chords, and the clean tones start to compress and sing but in a very musical way. As said, there is not a lot of bass, so no watts are spilled to produce the power-consuming low frequencies, but still the tone is surprisingly full. The Champ is a relatively dark sounding amp, but on this volume level there is a nice clearness in the tone that gave my ES-330 (copy) with P90 a very nice clear voice but that's never shrill or sharp. I was surprised the tone is not boxy (maybe just a hint of boxiness) and remains very jazzy, full and round.
With some drive pedals things go easily to the fusion and rock-side of the sound palette and then there is plenty of volume to spare. The absence of deep basses is then a definite advantage.
Both drummer and bass player were very surprised by it's nice tone and the volume that comes out of this small package.
Oh man.. I wish I had this amp as a practice amp 30 years ago, instead of this scratchy underpowered Japanese transistor amp I had back then......
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Not surprised that your Champ held its own with a trio, especially since your ES330 style guitar has P90's. Those single coils sound great and stay clean longer than any humbucker pickup'd guitar. Back in ye olde days when I started playing, my main (i.e. ONLY) amp I could afford was a '65 Vibro Champ. My only guitar was a cheap Harmony that had single coil DeArmonds. I had the nerve to play in a 6 piece group of equally fledgling kids. I could crank that Champ up to 6 or 7 with no distortion, and even 8 or 9 if I rolled back the guitar's volume a bit.
Enjoy your Champ!
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