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Bill,
I share the same sentiments as the other guys. This is an unfortunate experience and not uncommon when it gets cold and boxes are mis-handled. The longer the cold exposure, along with numerous shipping hand offs - just increases this potential.
The good news is that its easily repairable as previously noted. Chris Mirabella just took care of a similar finish issue on a friends guitar - and the finish checking was made invisible. The question you have to ask yourself - is it worth doing the repair, since the loss cost of the repair may not be worth the added value over the current depreciated value.
You may want to get some estimates in the meantime so you have some facts when trying to arrive at a settlement with Reverb.
Best of luck.....and try not to worry too much - just learn from the experience.
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12-23-2020 08:07 PM
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sorry to hear this. like the deacon said, finish checking doesn't bother me, but you really don't want it on a 3 yr old guitar if you can help it, especially one that you have to sell as some people are really picky about things like that. you have to be very specific in giving instructions to a seller in how to pack a guitar safely--this guy should have known how to send it back as it was sent to him properly.
on a side note I did a trade w/ a pretty prominent dealer for an old L-5 last week and it came w/the bridge still on it and tuned up to pitch. I assumed someone like them would know how to pack but we all know about that 'assume' word
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Originally Posted by steve burchfield
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Originally Posted by QAman
As long as it can be verified that there was no lasting structural damage I guess I can live with the cracks. I performed an internal inspection inside the body of the guitar today with an inspection light and mirror and couldn't find anything, but I wonder about stress at the neck/body joint and neck/headstock area. I will follow Deacon Marks advice to string up the guitar and play it hard to see if anything untoward happens. I am hoping that Reverb will come through with at least enough compensation to either sell the guitar with the cracks at a lowered price or with enough money to make the cracks disappear. But, I would disclose the repair anyway so there would be some depreciation reflected in the sale price of the guitar.
I do have certain luthiers who I trust for these kinds of repairs but one is in Kalamazoo and one is in Ventura. But, I am not going to send the guitar out for crack repair given my experience with the shipping. So, I will use my go to tech to get an estimate next week. He does good finish repair work.
And, I am past the worrying stage. Just trying to figure out how to get adequately compensated by Reverb, get the guitar repaired and properly set up, and then try to sell it locally. Thanks again for your support!
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Originally Posted by steve burchfield
I happened to get the driver who actually brought the package to my door, but usually I don't. I've had expensive packages left by the roadside more than once...
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Originally Posted by wintermoon
Because UPS and FedEx use dimensional weight these days instead of the real weight of the package I wonder if it would be appropriate to reinforce the interior of the shipping box with additional cardboard, fiberboard, or something like it. But the main consideration would be to direct any force against the box away from the contents and towards the reinforcing inner structure. Not sure how easy that would be.
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Originally Posted by starjasmine
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The man I did the recent deal with said his young daughter had to tell him about two guitar sized boxes being delivered across his street to a person who lived nearby. Good thing she knew what a guitar sized box looked like,the two were his being left at a wrong address,and were really for him.
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It is getting to a stage where selling your equipment yourself through ebay or Reverb is no longer worth the stress of dealing with flakey buyers. Consign it to a good responsible dealer. A dealer is usually able to fetch a better price than you can so it all works out the same at the end of the day minus the headaches. A good dealer weeds out the flakey buyers. I think they are worth their fees.
Operative words are good and responsible.
Too many jackasses out to take someone's prized guitar for a weekend's free strum and return it for "not as described". They can always find something. They even do it to dealers: I found this guy who bought a Les Paul Historic from a dealer under my nose. He timed the delivery for Friday so as to get an extra 48 hours of use-the dealer's 48-hour trial does not include Saturday and Sunday. Posted photos of it out on his lawn on a Les Paul forum, received all kinds of congratulatory slaps on the back...and then returned it to the dealer. I was in no mood to buy someone else's return at full price when he had exposed it on the web. It was an essentially 4-day old used guitar. I would have kept it, too, had I bought it first. Sick of such jackasses.
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Originally Posted by Bill Eisele
UPS ground is the kiss of death for an Archtop - especially in the winter. Just explain to Reverb that your choice of sending it priority mail was to avoid this exact situation and was clearly the right choice. In my opinion, based on numerous reports of damage, no one should use UPS ground as a choice for shipping a guitar.
I use many carriers in my business and if you knew the amount of incoming damaged boxes we’ve received via UPS ground - you would understand my opinion of them.
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Originally Posted by QAman
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Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
After months of this, I took it back, put it on Reverb myself, and sold it in about a week for my full asking price minus fees that were less than the shop would have taken. I doubt I'll ever do consignment again.
John
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Originally Posted by John A.
1. Try Craigslist. This is how we mostly sold stuff in the 60's through the 90's. A local classified ad. In days of yore, we had to pay mightily for this service, today it is free. Advantage: No shipping and no returns. Not to mention cash on delivery.
2. Advertise on forums like this one. One still has the shipping risk and the possibility of a beef with the buyer, but at least there are no fees.
3. EBay and Reverb. Fees and risk come with the territory. Do you feel lucky punk? Well do you? These big companies may screw you and they have very deep pockets. Be prepared to take your licks if things go awry.
4. Consignment. The best dealers are not usually close by so shipping is still a risk. Then there is the risk of the dealer going out of business or passing away and if that happens, getting your instrument back can be a major hassle or simply not possible. Add to that risk a 20-25 percent fee and you may be better off with EBay and Reverb.
I am sticking with 1 and 2. I would rather mark the instrument down for a local cash sale if possible and not have to look back. That said, I have instructed my wife that if I die with a bunch of guitars, her easiest choice would be to consign them one at a time to Gryphon (which she could drive to) and take her chances.
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Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
And, I agree that "not as described" is very open ended. Your story about the Les Paul Historic is a sad one, but not surprising given certain peoples' behavior.
My only problem with consigning is that the most active archtop consignment shops are all far away from me and now I am spooked about shipping. As I mentioned previously, I just consigned my Epiphone Elitist Byrdland and two steel guitars to my local dealer in Albuquerque. But the dealer told me that he hasn't sold an archtop guitar for quite a long time. He said the players and aficionados of these guitars are fading away.
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Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Originally Posted by Bill Eisele
If a guitar is a real expensive guitar then it goes without saying the buyers generally have the money. They are not worried about shipping cost or the rest, only that the guitar is what they want. So for example a person has a 1940 Super 400 worth say $10000. Well then the buyer can just come and make a decision. I know myself as a buyer at some point I will go pick the guitar up. In my case I would like to find a nice D'angelico Style A or B for sale. If ever I find one I am going to get it in person. That eliminates issues.
The problem is that if a person has to sell the guitar in a hurry or is a needed sell for money. Then of course that changes things but hopefully avoid those situations.
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Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Maybe I am just lucky, but I've done well with Reverb, both buying and selling it. I avoided using for a long time for fear of the potential downsides, but I've been a lucky punk (ditto with eBay, though I haven't tried it in a long time). I wish this weren't the case since I'd rather deal locally, and I'd rather not have to act like a retailer, but the market has shifted to Reverb almost entirely.
John
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Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
The store claimed they’ve gotten burnt in the past and insisted I follow their policy.
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Ahhh...ok.....I thought it must be something like that. Reverb has long been all or nothing in that regard. Their shipping rates are often a little better than mine, so I asked about shipping without “Reverb protection”, even offering to provide documentation of my Heritage policy, but that was a no go for them. Their coverage rates are far too costly to make a slightly better shipping rate worthwhile.
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I recently sold 3 guitars in separate listings that I posted here and listed on Reverb. All 3 sold here. Great transactions and they went to people I “know” through the forum. I have been lucky with shipping. I’ve never had an issue.
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Originally Posted by Bill Eisele
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I have only sold on Craigslist and the forums. I’ve only bought on the forums, Reverb, and Elderly. 99.9% were very good experiences. Only felt ripped off once in a CL parking lot sale.
As someone implied earlier, the hidden benefit of selling via Craigslist is that you meet people who are aficionados, so at long last you can chat it up with an actual person about this guitar gear that just bores most people to death.
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My immediate reaction when seeing those lacquer checks is not damage or impact, it's just a risk of sending a guitar during the winter.
Even with FedEx air, you're talking about, according to their own documents, a range of anywhere between 35 to 85 degrees F depending on the location in the cargo hold.
I sent a Les Paul to Chicago, from NYC, during the dead of winter. The guitar arrived with very faint checking on the headstock. Luckily, I had taken very high resolution pics of the guitar during packing. The buyer was reasonable, just asked if there was checking when I sent it. When I said no, he was fine since he could reference the pictures to see I wasn't lying.
Reverb *should* be able to see your pics from before and know the guitar returned in different condition than when it was sent.
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Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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After reading all these posts it seems the only no risk buy is to buy a archtop from QAman if and when he sells one.
Gryphon also has a Heritage policy and have told me that they pay up immediately on a damage claim. No questions asked. Unlike fully insuring with UPS which means a court battle.
PSA: Sadowsky Jim Hall in Koa!
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