-
I had listed my 2017 Eastman Pagelli PG-2 on Reverb not too long ago for $2300 and had a buyer soon after. The guitar had been meticulously packed both inside the case and inside the Reverb shipping box. I shipped it out via UPS Second Day Air with the Reverb Buyer Protection. I asked the buyer not to open the case until 24 hours elapsed after he had received it due to potential finish cracking. And, I believe he did so because I didn't hear anything from him about the guitar until the evening of the day after it arrived. He then reported to me that he was unable to raise the action to a height that was acceptable to him. So, I extended the evaluation time so he could get it to his tech to have it evaluated. What was odd about this was that several people had played the guitar just before it shipped and no one, including myself, noticed anything unusual about the action height. In fact, one person told me that he thought the action was a little high. The buyer was able to get the guitar to his tech the following day and the tech confirmed the issue with the action saying that it appeared to be a manufacturing defect with the neck angle. So, I asked the buyer to return the guitar to me and Reverb provided me with a return shipping label and the buyer was refunded his money. I received the guitar back a few days later and waited the 24 or so hours before I opened the case. To my dismay, I found finish cracks mostly on the top (see photos of some of the examples) and a few on the sides of the guitar, with nothing on the back. I then checked out the guitar for neck angle and action issues and couldn't find anything wrong with it. I then reported the finish cracks to Reverb and am now waiting to hear back from their resolution team. I took the guitar to my tech today and he thoroughly went over the guitar and could find nothing wrong with it except the finish cracks. He and my local Eastman dealer also weighed in with the Eastman representative on the phone and he couldn't offer any insight into the supposed neck angle defect. So, I'm not sure what the buyer or his tech saw that caused them to think the action couldn't be raised to an adequate playing level.
So, I now have this guitar that obviously can't be sold for my original asking price. And, I now need to prepare myself for what Reverb will come back with as their resolution to the issue. Of course, I would just like to send them the guitar at their expense and have them send me a check for $2300. I'm guessing that probably won't happen. Does anyone have any ideas as to how much these finish cracks would decrease the value of the guitar at the price I was asking? I really don't have an idea as I think these sorts of things are typically found on vintage guitars and are to be expected, but not for a guitar of recent manufacture. Thanks!
Attachment 77786Attachment 77785Attachment 77784Attachment 77783
-
12-22-2020 11:43 PM
-
The location of the cracks tells the story. There was top flex during the shipping, maybe tossing, maybe even a drop, but the top flexed on one side of the F hole and on the other side it's bound to the side. That resulted in a disparity of movement and the resulting "flex" couldn't be resisted by Eastman's finish, which is notoriously brittle.
Good news all around. It doesn't look like the wood fibre is broken, at least from the photos. And the change in action may very well be due to the extreme drop in humidity in these winter months. That finish breach on the upper bout by the neck block is unsettling; it belies at least an incidence of neck trauma. Sharp torque to the neck angle at the join. The top had a "thunk" and the neck and body moved (picture breaking a bundle of spaghetti) and there was undue stress. Did you immobilize the neck COMPLETELY in insulation top, back and all around when packing? Headstock above and below? Check the finish beneath the nut. Is there any tiny finish cracking there? I'm going to hope really hard there isn't since you didn't say.
While there may be a possibility of more serious top or bracing damage, that kind of shift does fall under expected changes for an Eastman, which uses a pretty high arch and they carve thinner than Gibson or many other archtops in an older carving tradition. That's one of the reasons Eastmans have that fast attack.
What can you do? Let it sit and humidify. Let it return to a more hospitable environment and see if it comes back. Very good chance it will.
As for the crazing and crackle, have a luthier apply a lacquer amalgamator to them. They will disappear. Stewmac makes the stuff and any Luthier worth his/her salt will have it on hand. It gets into the breach in the finish, dissolves the lac around the break and "melts" them together. Virtually undetectable and functionally good as new.
Obvious question regarding the action: Did your tech check your truss rod? Duh, Of Course, should be the answer.
Try that first. There's hope.Last edited by Jimmy blue note; 12-23-2020 at 06:44 AM.
-
Are the frets intact? I could imagine from the orientation of the cracks that the top has been under pressure, like something dropping or a child stepping on it. A blow on the strings leaves marks on upper frets. My sympathies!
-
Originally Posted by Gitterbug
I don't preclude the worst case scenario but the truth is, shipping is hell on a hand built guitar. Shipping an Eastman in the Winter, yeah, the possibility of disaster goes way up. They sound great because they're built light. This year especially, shipping industry is a disaster, backups are unprecedented and manpower is way down.
Dangerous business when it comes to shipping a fragile piece of wood carved to move air with the touch of a finger...
-
I think buyer decided he did not want the guitar. Whatever happened in travel just looking is only cosmetic. Yes certainly not what it was but not exactly bad. These things don’t bother me on guitars. Unfortunately you had bad experience. The problem with buying guitar over internet. Hopefully you can resell get something back my guess reverb the buyer wins. Avoid them.
-
Was the bridge set unusually high? Photo of the bridge? Could there be shipping damage that dropped the top a bit. The stress cracks could support this theory.
-
There is always a risk in shipping guitars and I think Reverb will pin that risk on you, the seller. That means eating the shipping costs and having the paint damage repaired. I would get the paint repaired and resell it. Don't let it keep you up at night. Wait for Reverb's decision and move on.
-
That sucks, Bill. I never sell anything with a return policy although I had an EBay buyer show me some shipping damage on a $35 pick up cover once. I refunded him the purchase price. Your situation is nowhere analogous though. Hope you get compensated.
-
Guitar shipping is so risky. Winter ships really intensify that risk especially with nitrocellulose lacquer. Very sorry.
-
Wise words. I had a similar situtation on Ebay about a year ago. The buyer drove me crazy with issues that were not there when I shipped it. He fought me on waiting 24 hours as he thought that was not necessary. I paid him some compensation and moved on. It was my last transaction on Ebay as I deleted my account soon after. Life's too short to deal with this sort of aggravation.
Originally Posted by Stringswinger
-
Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
So, the guitar is being humidified with Boveda 72% packs right now and I am awaiting a part so that the tech can do a setup on it before moving forward with anything else. Both the tech and I did check the truss rod adjustment and it is set with very minor relief. I am going to try to see if I can detect any brace cracks or cracks on the underside of the top with a borescope that I have on hand. I will report back with any findings. Thanks again!
-
What a nightmare. I hope that the lacquer amalgamator works well, Bill. Kudos to the collective knowledge of JGO...
-
Originally Posted by Gitterbug
-
If you ship a guitar in the middle of winter you’re trusting that the buyer will do his diligence and not open the box for 24 hours. This idiot likely opened the box as soon as it arrived and experienced horror when those cracks began to appear. And now you the shipper has to cope with the outcome. Bottom line, you can’t trust buyers to do the right thing, especially in winter.
-
Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
-
Originally Posted by deacon Mark
-
Originally Posted by skiboyny
-
Spruce is amazingly stable unless conditions get really dry, but that is one reason they put finish on guitars besides looks. Finish protects the wood and its properties. Spruce can take quite a big hit and flex so if nothing is cracked or broken underneath my guess is it is completely fine. Glued on necks and the blocks don't moved they crack or get damaged the same way with braces. String the guitar up and play it very hard. In fact playing the guitar with force and power generally will show up any issues with buzzing in the top due to cracks of braces. Possible you have a claim with the shipper but they are a hard nut to crack.
-
Originally Posted by Stringswinger
-
Originally Posted by deacon Mark
-
Originally Posted by starjasmine
-
Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
-
Every seller's nightmare. So sorry to read about your selling experience, Bill. I hope you are made whole.
-
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
-
Originally Posted by Bill Eisele
From Bar Chords to Bebop
Today, 02:33 PM in Improvisation