I don't need another guitar.......but...... how good is an Ibanez GB10?

[SteveJ]

Hi!

I'm a relative newbie at jazz guitar and have a very nice Eastman AR810 and an extremely competent Ibanez AG85 (pictured) as well as a few other guitars (Strat / Epi Casino Coupe / Gretsch 5129).

My eyes and ears are drawn to the Ibanez GB range and the 10 in particular but I'm pretty sure that it's just a bad case of GAS and that splurging on a new/used GB10 is unlikely to offer me anything radically new to what I have already.

I keep thinking of the law of diminishing returns and how, just because it has a famous endorsee, the GB is unlikely to play or sound much better than my AG85. Especially in my novice hands. I'm also aware that mine is a highly figured Bubinga wood whereas the newer GB10SE are made from Linden (or bass wood) which some luthiers think is only fit for making internal bracing etc.

Despite the above the GB10 sure is a pretty thing. I'm unlikely to be able to play one in the next few months and have plenty of jazz homework to be getting on with but thought folk might chime in and offer their views especially as to whether the GB range is 'better' than the Artcore £ for £ or $ for $ ( or € for € for my European friends).

Happy Christmas!

[Lobomov]

It is better .. and yeah, there are laws of diminishing returns, but it is better.

I don't have the GB10. I have a PM100.

I regularly played with a guy that played an AF105. The AF105 was a fine guitar, played well and sounded just fine .. but the PM100 is a clear class above it. Everyone agreed on it.


Anyways ...

What I am saying is this:
You don't ever NEED a better guitar. Once you hit upper range budget guitars like your AG they're more than good enough to get the job done. Period.


So it's not about what you need, it's about what makes you happy. Will having a GB10 put a smile on your face? .. If yes and you can afford it without issues then go ahead and buy it. It is a very popular guitar and I can think of at least two of the top players in my cities jazz scene that have been playing GB10s exclusively for ages.


It's like art. Do you need an expensive painting on your wall .. no you don't. Do many buy them anyways .. They sure do. ... Or like furniture .. Is IKEA good enough? .. It sure it, yet so many buy much much more expensive stuff


My entire appartment is furnished by IKEA .. My guitars on the other hand are high end. We all have our values

[marcwhy]

If you're new to jazz guitar, and you already have decent gear, keep playing and getting better with what you have! In a year, you'll want something else (for various reasons); if you still want the GB, and can afford it, go for it.

And have fun!

Marc

[Jimmy blue note]

You don't need it, but it is pretty. I have (had) two =1 GB and 1 JS, but then again I worked for Ibanez and I've gotta say the shape of the body was the best thing and the most distinguishing thing about it. You've got the guitar I'd get were I in your place. I would, however put a nice Duncan 59 or similar in the neck. Then I'd have, what I can honestly say would be a better sounding GB than a 10.
Everything you need is in your hands-on so many levels.

This is the Korean built. Very limited run. Very good sound. I've seen them for as low at $800 but the market is up and down. As low a base price as you are likely to find.
Ibanez George Benson GB-10 JS 1997/98 "Sunburst" | | Reverb

[Michael Neverisky]

My opinion is that, if you can afford a small financial loss, there's no reason to deny yourself the experience. Best case the guitar inspires you to practice and become a better player. Worst case you never warm to the guitar and sell it at a loss. In both cases you've grown because you've learned something.

[SteveJ]

You've got the guitar I'd get were I in your place. I would, however put a nice Duncan 59 or similar in the neck. Then I'd have, what I can honestly say would be a better sounding GB than a 10.
Everything you need is in your hands-on so many levels.

This is the Korean built. Very limited run. Very good sound. I've seen them for as low at $800 but the market is up and down. As low a base price as you are likely to find.
Ibanez George Benson GB-10 JS 1997/98 "Sunburst" | | Reverb

Thank you! Have I got this right? Are you saying that the Artcore with a pick-up upgrade would be as good as (or better than) a GB10?

[pingu]

I do keep getting the GAS for specific
Guitars/amps/ pedals etc

but I have learned to delay gratification for
a week or two ....
by which time the GAS has refocused onto
another object ...

thats just me tho ....
I can’t afford the dough and I don’t
have much spare space
and anyway it screws with my head
if I have too much
(I have to de-clutter ...)
but that’s just me
——————
one thing I DO hold with
is that thing of trying out different guitars trying to find ‘the one’
or at least a good one for YOU

I did run into a nice Ibanez JP one time in a shop ...which felt sooo great to play

I foolishly didn’t buy it on the spot

but that was an individual instrument not a type of an instrument ....

your AG look really nice man

[Crm114]

The Ibanez GB10 is Ibanez longest running model
over 42 years now
versstile
comfortable
flexible

if you need a multi genre guitar you can play standing up or sitting down for long periods of time its the GB10

the notion that upgrading the electronics in an AG will make it better than a GB10 is weak

listen long
grorge lays out the origin

[jazzkritter]

Stevej

I have the same AG you have (isn’t the Bubinga pretty?). And yes it plays wonderfully.

Dollar for dollar a modified AG will equal or beat a GB anytime. It’s the same body size/shape. Compare $350 to $2500, leaves a lot of cases of wine.)))

Two things improved mine a great deal: a good PAF neck pickup as Jimmy suggests, and a wooden bridge replacing the metal. Pickups are a personal choice, I would follow Jimmy’s lead he knows Ibanez archtops as well as anyone. (On my AG is a DiMarzio 36th Anniversary, a hot Seymour Duncan Jazz in the bridge).

I did have a GB10. To me I prefer the sound of body mounted pickups, I could never get comfortable with the tone of the GB. Those pickguard pups are too high for me, kept picking them. Personal taste.
As to build quality, yes, the MIJ Ibanez are very well made. However the difference between my AG and my MIJs is pretty slim. The neck work on the AG is fine, frets smooth. I get a kick out of seeing the Epi and Eastman buyers needing fret work on new boxes, rare with Ibanez. But I do agree that staying with your AG till you are a better player is a good strategy. Who knows what you may want in a better guitar in the future.
Anyway... ever hear the line: “big hat, no cattle”? There’s plenty of poor players out there with $10,000 guitars.

My Ibanezzzes: AG95, AF95FM, PM200, AF200 (my go to fav). The PM and AF both have Lindy Fralin Modern PAFs which are luscious.

good luck
d

[ronjazz]

I like the GB10, but when the time came to buy a more versatile guitar for commercial work, I found a
Greg Bennet-designed Samick Royale 3 that really did it for me, and when I decided to modify it with an RMC midi pickup system, I didn't have to worry about diminishing the resale value, since the Samick was $450 brand-new. That Samick made me a lot of money and was always fun and easy to play, as well as looking really good. That's close to 20 years ago, and that guitar is still in the stable. Although I play mostly nylon 7-string these days, the Samick comes out for recording sessions and blues or fusion gigs without regret. I only mention this because your Ibanez is a very good guitar, and even if you get a GB10, hang onto the AG until you're sure about the GB10.

[Crm114]

SteveJ is comparing a modified AG with set in pickups to a Prestige model eith floating pickups - it works for him. My buddy TuffLion loves the AGs

GOOD LUCK IN YOUR HUNT

[Jimmy blue note]

Thank you! Have I got this right? Are you saying that the Artcore with a pick-up upgrade would be as good as (or better than) a GB10?

For me it was. For me. But some people are in love with that Ibanez floater, I'm one who wasn't. On my GB10's I had Duncan wind me new pickups and I got a rich big box sound that holds its own against my Gibson Johnny Smith.
The larger set in pickups give you an option to choose virtually ANY after market pickup, and set it for touch and edge through pickup height adjustment. That versatility is not to be dismissed.
The Artcore does not have prestige, or the cache that the high end Benson has, so it's not the detailed hand build of the Alfa Romeo would be in the car world, but it's got more than the rugged capability and musical worthiness of say, a Nissan Z or Accura roadster (and don't people love to trick them out to put the big names to shame?).
It's the player's hands that decide. Ibanez invested a lot of $$ to build the mystique of the GB10. They're amazing guitars (I used to set up the personal instruments that went to George's house for the holidays, he'd always get comps at Christmas-and they're worthy professional instruments) but those little Artcores...you can't even find them in the catalogues, but as a player, yeah they're the overlooked giant killer in the Ibanez lineup. IMHO.

[Jimmy blue note]

When Sadowsky made the Jimmy Bruno custom, that guitar, a 15" like the benson, had one serious divergence in the design. Set in pickups. That little guitar and the 16" Jim Hall were the mainstay of the high end signature lineup. Just saying

[jazzkritter]

Fine example of an AG with an upgraded neck pup (and painters tape for the bridge pup))) is Jake Reichbart...plenty of you tubes out there and here.
(pretty sure it’s an AG the body suze shape is right)

[Doug B]

I found a
Greg Bennet-designed Samick Royale 3 that really did it for me, and when I decided to modify it with an RMC midi pickup system, I didn't have to worry about diminishing the resale value, since the Samick was $450 brand-new.

I bought the same guitar because it was all that I could afford at the time. I've since put a Fralin Pure PAF in the neck position.

I would have to buy something like a Bennedetto or a Sadowsky before I could have a better sounding jazz guitar.

[SteveJ]

Stevej


Two things improved mine a great deal: a good PAF neck pickup as Jimmy suggests, and a wooden bridge replacing the metal. Pickups are a personal choice, I would follow Jimmy’s lead he knows Ibanez archtops as well as anyone. (On my AG is a DiMarzio 36th Anniversary, a hot Seymour Duncan Jazz in the bridge).


d

Thanks, I'm certainly going to look into both of those options (pick-up and ebony bridge). Any thing to be gained by upgrading the pots whilst I'm at it?

[Lobomov]

However the difference between my AG and my MIJs is pretty slim.

Yeah your go to is the AF200 and you have a PM200 ... Alrighty then

[citizenk74]

I used to partner with a very talented and experienced guy who had a GB-10 when we met. He later traded it for a series of instruments that never seemed to do it for him. He always regretted getting rid of the GB-10.

I have (among other guitars) an AG-85, one of the early ones with the Bubinga veneer and the wood-sheathed tailpiece. It's just such a nice guitar. Perfect for the couch, compact and comfortable to play seated or standing. The feel of theses instruments is just so nice. I find the stock pickups to be fine, but I run my pups lower than most. A pup swap would not be hard, I just don't feel the need. I like the sound of set-in pickups, though I have an Epiphone Emperor Regent with a floater that I can get a good sound from.

I appreciate your dilemma. If it were me I might consider putting in a set of '57 Classics, or Duncans or whatever, but I'm lazy. Inertia has saved me a ton of money over the years!

Perhaps a GB-10 will come along at the right price for you. Good luck!

[jazzkritter]

Lobomov after 45+ years of working, gotta have company for the L5 and the Tal.

SteveJ: Upgrading the pots is a highly contentious topic. With an AS in Elec Tech, and an Extra class amateur radio license, and fooling with tube amps since geez 1968, I have a real problem with “voodoo electronics”. A variable resistor (pot) in a tone circuit bleeds off or blocks certain frequencies. So in any electronics theory book, the answer would be no effect on the quality of the non blocked frequencies. They are just passing through.

However, in a world where science and physics are considered situational ethics, there are many who will swear that a ‘better’ pot equals better tone. From a strict technical standpoint, that is voodoo electronics. And I know i’m going to be flamed on this. A ‘better’ pot will likely feel better to turn, and surely have closer tolerance to its rated value. And everyone feels better paying 10-15$ for a 5$ part. . But in the end it’s a variable resistor.

Capacitors are a whole different story, they can and do affect tone. It’s a quality, value and construction issue.

[Lobomov]

Lobomov after 45+ years of working, gotta have company for the L5 and the Tal.

The Tal is my dream guitar .. but haven't seen one in ages and the only one I've seen was priced at €5400/$6600, which is step for a used guitar. Some ten years ago Thomann had them new at €4300 .. Should have pounced!


But life is still long, so no problem ... but yeah .. I want a Tal

[jazzkritter]

Yep the TF is a magic guitar! I rate both the AF200 and the Tal above the PM200.
To topic.... the AF200 gets blamed for a constricted sound, not a full archtop sound. It’s the pickup, IMHO . Once I swapped the Super 58 out for the Fralin the sound really bloomed.
Weird cause the Super 58s have such a great following. That pretty much echoes Jimmy’s experience with the GB.

[EvansDrD]

I recently acquired on of these - a MIJ in blonde (2017)

I love absolutely everything about this guitar...the neck, the build quality, the comfort etc....

...however, I don't love the tone. I find the pickups too hot and too bright for my tastes and so I have to roll the tone right back and knock the volume down to get the one (fantastic) tone that works for me

Just yesterday I started a thread and it seems the issue very well be me and my amp

[Jimmy blue note]

I recently acquired on of these - a MIJ in blonde (2017)

I love absolutely everything about this guitar...the neck, the build quality, the comfort etc....

...however, I don't love the tone. I find the pickups too hot and too bright for my tastes and so I have to roll the tone right back and knock the volume down to get the one (fantastic) tone that works for me

Just yesterday I started a thread and it seems the issue very well be me and my amp

I play a Princeton and I know it well, and it's a good warm jazz amp. The GB10 doesn't sound good to my ear. I don't blame my amp though. Working at Hoshino (Ibanez) we worked on them, and there was a pretty strong consensus among the techs that TRIED to get good sound out of them that after the early 80's the sound of those pickups changed.
Hey, let me know when you find the amp that does it for you. I'll send a note down to the guys in Bensalem.

[Lobomov]

I play a Princeton and I know it well, and it's a good warm jazz amp. The GB10 doesn't sound good to my ear. I don't blame my amp though. Working at Hoshino (Ibanez) we worked on them, and there was a pretty strong consensus among the techs that TRIED to get good sound out of them that after the early 80's the sound of those pickups changed.
Hey, let me know when you find the amp that does it for you. I'll send a note down to the guys in Bensalem.

Yet the GB10 is quite popular among a lot of players ... why is that?

The ones I talked to didn't fiddle with their pups

[rabbit]

"I don't need another guitar..."

Say what?