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Because different people have different ears. Mine were brought up on a Gibson JS and I'm really picky.
Originally Posted by Lobomov
That's a beautiful guitar and it just feels great to play.
A lot of people buy a guitar and play music (or worship it) but the first thing I ever do is ask myself "Does this fit my ideal?" and I'm a luthier as well as a player. Not being absolutely happy with a sound has never been something that I had to live with.
Why do a lot of players like a certain sound? I dare say a lot of players hear an ideal that comes from somebody really admirable plays that guitar, and imparts their touch on that guitar, and more than a little part of the time, quite a bit of processing.
A lot of players are happy with their guitars stock, and then one day they might play a D'Angelico with a vintage D'Armond on it. So THAT's what it's supposed to sound like?
A lot of players love their guitars but ask yourself how often do you hear the words "How come I can't sound like that?"
A lot of players love their Tal Farlow guitars. There's a huge mystique. I will say that Tal liked his guitar, but he LOVED playing. And it's that love people hear and associate it with that guitar. (not saying they're not good/great guitars, just I never heard him swoon over his guitar as an object of desire).
Just me. I don't like the frequency envelope of the Ibanez pickups. Honestly, I'm glad there are so many to whom they bring joy. ' don't really think about it beyond that.
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12-18-2020 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
It's my bucketlist guitar, but they're hard to find these days .. At least at prices I'm willing to pay.
But it has nothing to do with Tal, I had no idea who he was. I was 24 and getting into jazz .. went in the to look at Gibsons. Tried their cheapest models but was not impressed, so I went up and up in price. The Tal just blev me aways. Felt amazing and sounded even better.
But alas, far too rich for my blood, so I compromized on a Howard Roberts Fusion instead .. it was almost half price of the Tal .. but still haunts me that Tal .. The Howard Roberts less so .. Sold it a few years ago
Never really got into Tal the player .. But gave him a chance cause of his guitar
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I had a nice 1990 model for a little while. This was maybe 2 years ago. A reasonably nice guitar, sure, but ultimately it didn't have enough magic for me. I didn't love the 15 fret body or the so-so unplugged tone, and plugged-in it was pretty nice but not amazing. I could still get a nicer sound and better playability out of my 16" laminate guitar (at the time). But I don't regret trying it out for a while.
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Howard Roberts Fusion, great looking guitar! On paper it looks amazing. In real life it looks SO sexy. But goodness, they designed it to choke. You know they filled the inside with balsa to cut the resonance? Great for taming a beast for the studio but the complete opposite from a Tal. Sorry you didn't get some mojo advice back then. There're a lot of options these days for a guitar with a hardwood top resonance, that's the unique character of the Tal, it's got a very hard top coupled with Gibson PAF's. I got an early production Ibanez PM-20 (Same outline mold pattern as the Joe Pass) and put a Gibson PAF in it. Now THAT brings you into the zone. Originally Posted by Lobomov
But alas, far too rich for my blood, so I compromized on a Howard Roberts Fusion instead .. it was almost half price of the Tal .. but still haunts me that Tal .. The Howard Roberts less so .. Sold it a few years ago
A highly recommended combo and a fair share of magic IMHO
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I'm too old to settle for just the zone Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
Besides I have a great PM100 with a Benedetto A6 instead of the Super58. Now that is actually one hell of a pairing
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If I remember correctly, this guitar was donated to this musician by our own Big Mike in NJ. Originally Posted by Crm114
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I have a 1981 Ibanez GB10 (made in Japan) which I bought used in 1986. Every time we have one of these threads, I pull it out and play it for a while and I'm reminded that it (1) has the perfect neck, (2) is extremely comfortable to play, (3) sounds absolutely fabulous plugged in, (4) even has a respectable acoustic tone.
Well, (3) depends on what sound you want. If you want the dead plywood thunk of an ES-175, this won't do it for you. if you want the more resonant thunk of an ES350 or Tal Farlow model, this probably won't do that either. If you want a guitar that can go from clear and articulate to smoky and articulate, this will do it. If you want to approximate George Benson's tone, this is probably the only tool that will do that. You can also use the adjustable tailpiece to increase or decrease the break angle over the bridge, which to my ears can make the guitar to sound very tight or very soft and loose. Lately I have been playing it with 11-50 RWs and the tailpiece screwed up so that the feel is quite loose. I'm liking the sound I get with that. There is an amazing range of sound available in this instrument.
My personal tone recipe for my GB10 is the guitar, a low capacitance George L's cable plugged into a reverb pedal and then plugged into a 5E3. The volume on the guitar is at 3-4, tone to taste (most of the tonal adjustment is coming from the volume control), the volume on the amp is at 2.5-3 and the tone is at 3. Fat, warm but not blanket-over-the-amp. Those really hot pickups are the secret sauce for the instrument's sound. If you want a bright, poppy Bensonesque tone run the volume on the guitar at 7–8; if you want a softer, darker sound, run the volume much lower and compensate with the amp's volume. If you want to get into shred territory, dime the controls.
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This nails my tonal recipe
deluxe reverb at 2.5
guitar set to both pickups
neck pickup about 3
bridge pickup just a little so the tone sparkles just a little
TI GB12 flats
Originally Posted by Cunamara
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Here's my take: I bought a 2007 GB10 in the Fall of 2017. As soon as I got it home and set it up, I felt that it had the jazz sound I was looking for. Shortly thereafter, CME was having the big blowout on Gibson Memphis, and with all the talk of the ES-175 being an iconic jazz guitar, I bought one. I thoroughly expected that the 175 was going too be "it." The 175 arrived and it was a nice guitar and well made, but I was underwhelmed. I sold the 175 and kept the GB10.
In the Spring of 2019, I purchased a Benedetto Bravo Deluxe, which has turned out to be the most perfectly made guitar of any that I've owned. After playing that for about a year and still being smitten with it, I decided to trade the GB10 for something more versatile (read: I really wanted an ES 335). I was still playing the GB10 fairly often, but I figured that I had a great jazz guitar in the Bravo, so the GB10 didn't really have a place in the stable.
So off went the GB10 and in came the 335. I truly enjoy the 335 and have kept it, but have regretted trading the GB10 since that day. In addition to the awesome neck and high quality of build, there is just a certain tonal quality I don't hear anywhere else, but the Ibanez GB guitars. I suck, but I want my mistakes and wrong notes to have that thunky woody tone.
Got myself a new GB10 on Tuesday. Set it up the other night. This one isn't going anywhere.
I say to get one and spend some time with it. You'll either bond with it or not. But at least you'll know.
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I got my GB10 last year. I played an AG75 before for many years which I modded with a wooden bridge. The difference was not like night and day but the GB10 has just the little "je net sais quois" – more punch, more weight to the notes maybe. It played a little better, too. The AG is a little lighter OTOH. Eventually I gave it to my best friend. I could have lived well enough with either guitar.
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Originally Posted by Zigracer
Unfortunately in my experience the ES-175s can vary a lot. My local guitar dealer had a blonde flamed ES175 that also was severely underwhelming .. this was a few years before the CME sale, so probably same build as the one you got. Didn't like it at all neither the sound or the feel. But I've tried older plan versions of the ES175 that where great ...
... speaking of ES175s .. A year or two later they got the '59 version from Memphis .. That was instant love for me. A much ligher build .. Pure thunk .. amazing but too rich for my blood. The maple one went on deep sale and I could have bought it, but someone unfortunately paid full gibson++ price for the 59, so it never reached a price range, where I'd consider it.
Seeing those '59s go for 2-3k at the CME sale really really tempted ... but alas I didn't have the balls to risk buying one from across the atlantic .. but god dammit!!
Worth nothing is what Metheny said about Ibanez in an interview:
Ibanez guitars are a lot like Paiste cymbals in that they don’t have much personality, but every one is exactly the same. I could go to a music store right now, pick up one of those Ibanezes, and walk onto the bandstand and play a gig. And I like the neutrality of those guitars, because you get out what you put in. Very documentary-like
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This video convinces me that the guitar is not a classic jazz box. Regardless the music and playing is cool, the guitar has a slim hollow body tone, or almost solid body on higher registers. The play starts with lower registers on lower strings, where even the cheaper boxes can produce decent sound in a good players hand. However on high E string (even in B) the weakness of this instrument revealed, a sound which is very close to a solid body, with no mojo when using an almost clear amp and effect setting. Originally Posted by Crm114
I did not know this video, but earlier I saw many AG 95 demos. Some of them stating the a $500 box is almost undistinguishable from 5x price tag... then unintentionally demonstrates that it is not even great value for $500.
In this price category an Epi Joe Pass is 3 class higher, and that is a real jazz box. Having an Epi, it makes sense to thinking about a PU upgrade. In this AG a PU upgrade is an insult for the PU in case it is a decent PU.
If one not into a rich warm full depth jazz sound, it is completely OK, however this case it makes no sense to buy a full depth guitar, there are many Ibanez hollow bodies with center block between $700 and $1200...
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I am going to amend my last response slightly (see also the other thread I started re: GB10 pickups)
Having played around with volume and tone settings on the amp, I think my response is 'GB10s are very good guitars indeed'
Please update us if you end up getting one!
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FWIW After getting the GB I put a Seymour Duncan Jazz Humbucker into the neck position of my Artcore AG75 to improve the tone. It didn't change the guitar as much as I expected. I think the artcore stock pickups are not as bad as you'd think. Originally Posted by SteveJ
Changing from the original tune-o-matic to a wooden bridge did much more to the tone IMHO. It gave the guitar a more airy and acoustic tone. A wooden bridge is like 10-20 € while I paid 50 € in Ebay plus 25 for the luthier's work to put it in for the pickup. So I would start there.
Yet it was different to the GB which doesn't amaze me given the specs:
- maple body vs. maple with spruce top
- mahagony neck vs. maple neck
- rosewood vs. ebony fingerboard
- top mounted fullsize humbuckers vs. floating minis
IMHO this all sums up to the more punchy and a little brighter tone of the GB. Personally I like maple necks, ebony fretboards and mini buckers.
I liked my AG75 very much yet I like my GB10 better. But if I couldn't afford it I would have been happy playing my AG for the rest of my days.
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the point of the video was missed by you
many great Ibanez guitars suit players who do something other than jazz
Tuffy is a great guy and reverted by his many fans
but nice speech snyeay
Originally Posted by Gabor
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Yes I know, you are right. I was not talking about the video content itself, instead, the guitar and the the PU upgrade, and in general the budget Ibanez guitars. Consider it as a rant on cheaper Ibanez gutars, what are shame of the brand (IMO), and compared to many great price/value budget MIC and MIK guitars with the very same price tag, those Ibanez guitars are way lower quality, (relatively I mean) Originally Posted by Crm114
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I don't get this. Why did you decide to switch the pu's? Originally Posted by guavajelly
It seems to me that the only way you could decide the original pu's were ok, was to replace them with SD's.
What I learn form that is that you have no idea what a good or a bad pu sounds like. So replacing it won't help you.
It's like eating an apple. Not being happy. Buying more expensive apples. Deciding that the original apple was ok to begin with . . . .
People 'upgrade' for no good reason. Most of the time they don't have a clue what they are doing. And why.
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???
I'm afraid I have to disagree here. IMHO when buying an Ibanez you pretty much get what you pay for. Even the budget lines like the artcore provide good value for the money. Which MIC an MIK guitars provide better quality for the same price, Gabor?
I think Tuffy's tone is also due to thin strings, like the .010s these come with. Once you put .012s on these guitars they sound much fatter. I don't think that he is aiming for a fat jazz tone either.
Neither an Ibanez GB10 nor an Artcore will satisfy hardcore jazz guitarists that want to to do solo performances with a carved archtop and an acoustic image rig and they are not made for that. These are guitars that survive on a loud stage for a variety of music while giving you some acoustic flavour. The GB for wealthy first world guys, the Artcore for everybody else. If you are born in Jamaica and struggling to make a living these are a great option. Something like the GB10SE sits right in the middle which makes it a nice option for everyone in between.
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- again I wrote "compared to" and "relatve", which is the main point. Originally Posted by guavajelly
- practically every Epi provides better price value ratio.
- the beefier E and B never make the cheap plinky and solid body like sound to have a mojo, trust me I even tried the 0.14 Thomastic set on my cheap Ibanez guitars. It is a waste of money on those guitars. Also it is waste of money the PU upgrade.
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I completely understand the money issue, because I am also not from a rich county. Actually I am writing to help prevent wasting money for those who have no so much, by sharing my experience. My solution was to buy used guitars on Reverb. MIK and MIC Epis and Eastmans. An mint Epi Joe Pass is from $400 and a mint Eastman 372 is from $600. Clean them carefully, then allow $50 for a good luthier and you will have a decent guitar. Way better spent, than $600-1200 on any artcore
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First of all an Ibanez AF75 is like 400 while an epi joe pass is like 700. i think used prices will reflect that.
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I changed the PU because I wanted to try if that would improve the guitar. I was happy before with discounter ketchup but wanted to see if the gourmet ketchup tastes better. It did to some extend but not as much as I expected. Still ketchup. Changing the bridge had much more impact. Originally Posted by Marcel_A
But if I read your post correctly I see I'm tone deaf, have no clue and therefore my opinion is irrelevant anyway.
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no
iy wasn’t that one, but one of those limited run AS103s with blonde burl maple veneers and flamr maple binding and other appointments in wood. Upgraded with Classic 57s and a new harness. The AS103s and many of the AG and AF make great upgrade platforms.
russ aka TuffLion had his house burn to the ground destroying all his studio gear, recordings and guitars. He’s come a long way since then.
funny thing is as great as the 103 was he gravitated right back to the AGs and the AM.93s which are a wee smaller and lighter
good guy
CRM
Originally Posted by Cunamara
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I played an MIK AF85 for ages. Now I have an ES175. I don’t think I would have liked the Gibson when I got the Ibanez. My tastes altered over time.
I did some touring with the Ibanez recentish as I had to fly and didn’t want to risk one of my main guitars in the hold. I got a Gibson Pickup installed and used a wooden bridge;
My bandmates raved about how good it sounded. I was happy with it as a gigging box.
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It also quite a lot easier to play than my Gibson as well lol. But a very different guitar. Not resonant.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
Yeah .. That is the thing .. It's easy to confuse that as a difference in quality. I'd take the playability of the cheap Ibanez over the "better quality" of the Epiphones anyday
You can find a used AF75 or 85 around €300 and that is one hell of a lot of guitar for not a lot of money
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