P90 Pickups for Jazz

**Barcia** · 04-04-2017, 07:39 AM

I like it!

Mine is inspired in Manhattans too (Alnico 3), so it sounds very similar to yours.
As you did, I only changed the neck pickup at first, but I missed the middle position and had the same problem you have, so I ordered the bridge one.

The loss of volume is because the pickups are out of phase. If you rotate one of the pickups, they still be out of phase (weird tone) but with more volume. And there is a trick more:

It works!

My last advice: Time on the EQ... this pickups changed my way of EQing. Turn the treble up!

**rintincop** · 08-18-2018, 02:57 AM

I absolutely love the classic jazz neck sound of a P90 and will never go back to Humbucker.. My nice Epiphone Casino Coupe (5lbs 10 oz) has stock P90s which are nice but I think I can do better in terms of clarity.

I can’t decide whose to get, you can’t hear a comparison anywhere. I don’t care about hum cancelation or any style other than traditional jazz.

Many folks make them :
Lollar (perhaps to bright)
Gibson (does it sound like reissue in video below?)
Seymour Duncan’s Antiquity (in video)
Fralin
Vintage Vibe
Biltoft
Wolfetone
Bare Knuckles

and numerous others...

Is there somebody experienced with all of the P90 brands that can say which is the standout in terms of the ideal balance of warmth and clarity?

I have heard The Duncan Antiquity in this YouTube and it is quite nice compared to Gibson’s:

**Boston Joe** · 08-18-2018, 08:35 AM

I'm over the moon about my Porter P-90s. They're not any kind of fancy noiseless design or anything. They're just very well made P-90s. Despite not being noiseless, they are very quiet. I do get a little hum sometimes, but it's not obnoxious. The tone is very nicely balanced. Also, not outrageously expensive.

He's got four different versions. I went with the "Smooth" set. Smooth P90 - Porter Custom Wound Guitar Pickups

**ThatRhythmMan** · 08-18-2018, 09:18 AM

Out of these, I’ve actually only played Lindy Fralin’s P90s. I have to say his hum canceling version really impressed me.

**Marty Grass** · 08-18-2018, 09:28 AM

I've had a good experience with Lollar and Fralin. Both shops are small and dedicated enough to pick up the phone, discuss what you want, and make something for you accordingly. Kent Armstrong will do the same.

I would suggest you get a set of shims to adjust the height. It makes a difference. I'd say it takes less than 15 minutes to add or subtract a shim during string changes and doesn't require much skill at all. I don't do adjustments any sooner than string changes because I have mental instability and keep changing my mind. I find it best to decide and see if I agree with myself a month later.

Personally, I like the lower winds, not the hotter ones. That gets me in the ballpark. The rest is pickup height, strings, pick, yada yada.

**robertm2000** · 08-18-2018, 10:17 AM

Pete Biltoft at vintagevibeguitars.com! Pete Biltoft made me two custom pickups for a guitar I put together. I had 15 electrics when Pete did this, and after I got them pickups and tried them out, I sold all of the other guitars! Pete Biltoft actually answers his phone in person. He will talk with you until he is sure exactly how you want the pickups to sound. On top of that, he can build literally any physical configuration you could want, single coil or double coil. Another cool feature of his pickups is the interchangeable magnets. Pete has figured out a mounting system whereby you can change the magnets, which are bar magnets, within about 15 seconds. And he sells magnets of Alnico 2, 3, 5, and ceramic. In addition, when you buy a pickup Pete includes your choice of any two of the four types. I'm not related or a salesman for him, just a supremely satisfied customer!

**feet** · 08-18-2018, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Marty Grass

I would suggest you get a set of shims to adjust the height. It makes a difference. I'd say it takes less than 15 minutes to add or subtract a shim during string changes and doesn't require much skill at all. I don't do adjustments any sooner than string changes because I have mental instability and keep changing my mind. I find it best to decide and see if I agree with myself a month later

shims are the key. they were the difference between me actually liking my casino and throwing it in the trash. they need to be a little closer to the strings, the bridge especially.

i have an elitist casino, so mine are gibson p90s with chrome covers. i like them fine. its a unique sounding guitar, but you can get in that ballpark you posted with amp and tone knob fiddling. for me to swap them out would be more out of curiosity than need.

can't say whether its true or not, but i've read that p90s are a simpler, more forgiving pickup to build, and almost anyone does a good job at any price point, be it the cheapo guitar fetish ones or the big ticket throbaks or whatever.

**Gitfiddler** · 08-18-2018, 05:34 PM

I haven't personally tried Throbak P90's, but they are highly regarded.

P90 Pickup: ThroBak Vintage P90 Pickup Reproductions

**Sam Sherry** · 08-18-2018, 06:19 PM

I've owned and played Gibson P90s from almost all eras, ranging from 40s to recent. Although there are distinctions they all sound like P90s. A ton of nit-picky things vanish as soon as somebody starts smashing pieces of Turkish bronze in the same room where you're trying to luxuriate in the difference between A3 and A5 magnets, y'know?

Essentially any used Gibson P90 will get you deep enough into the ballpark that it's up to you, your amp and your band.

Originally Posted by Marty Grass

I would suggest you get a set of shims to adjust the height. It makes a difference. I'd say it takes less than 15 minutes to add or subtract a shim during string changes and doesn't require much skill at all. I don't do adjustments any sooner than string changes because I have mental instability and keep changing my mind. I find it best to decide and see if I agree with myself a month later.

Personally, I like the lower winds, not the hotter ones. That gets me in the ballpark. The rest is pickup height, strings, pick, yada yada.

What Mark said. Every P90 has a sweet spot height-wise.

**Hep To The Jive** · 08-18-2018, 08:28 PM

I'm thinking of changing a mini humbucker on my Guild to P90 as well. But I can't use a true single coil, so any thoughts on what's the best noiseless P90 option out there for a hollowbody? I've heard great things about Lollar, but can't find any noiseless options on the website...

**D.G.** · 08-19-2018, 01:34 AM

Fralin has some interesting items worth checking out.

**Gitfiddler** · 08-19-2018, 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive

I'm thinking of changing a mini humbucker on my Guild to P90 as well. But I can't use a true single coil, so any thoughts on what's the best noiseless P90 option out there for a hollowbody? I've heard great things about Lollar, but can't find any noiseless options on the website...

Lollar P90's sound great, but do have some 60 cycle hum in the neck and bridge positions. They are however, hum cancelling in the middle position.

**Little Jay** · 08-19-2018, 02:24 AM

What strikes me most in that video you posted (Dutch guy, seen his videos before) is how similar all guitars sound - which reminds me that the PU is only one link in the sound chain and that the player dials in a sound that he wants to hear - perhaps subconsciously compensating for differences in the equipment.

Having said, I’ve done my share of pickup grinding as well.

Here’s my ES-125 right after I installed a Lollar 50ies underwound thru my Twin Reverb (recorded with an ipad):

I suspect this is also the Lollar thru the Twin (ipad again): (*edit: no it’s already the Gibson, I changed the bridge at the same time and it has the new bridge on!)

But I couldn’t resist a 1947 Gibson P90 when it was offered at a very reasonable price (thank you Sam Sherry!), so that went in. Here it is thru my Fender Blues Deluxe, recorded with a Sennheiser E609:

And here again thru the Blues Deluxe, also recorded with the Sennheiser:

Lastly the Gibson thru the Twin at a live-gig, recorded with an iphone:

My conclusion listening to the vids: Lollar and Gibson are both great with very minimal difference at best (but of course an old Gibson belongs in that Guitar!). My perceived differences between them: the Gibson is a little more clear (transparent?), clean and defined. They have about the same output. The Lollar has ever so slightly more mids and a ‘ballsier’ sound. But to be honest I don’t really hear that back in my own vids.

**stevo58** · 08-19-2018, 03:35 AM

Hi

The key is to get vintage output pickups. The Epi pickups are hot as hell; they are wound to 11-12k where vintage (or current Gibsons) are around 8k. This muddies things up and makes it difficult to avoid overdriving the amp. While you are at it replace the wiring harness (much easier than in a 335) - I like Bourns sealed pots (model 95 or 82 if you can find them) in any guitar where dust can get to the pots. Braided wire, Switchcraft switch and jack. Robust, reliable stuff that will give faithful service for many years.

Before you buy, take a close look at the neck pickup. I don't know how it is on the Coupe, but on the standard Chinese Casino, the neck pickup has 1) a narrower string spread - 48mm I think - and 2) the pickup is angled. The spread isn't important but the angle is. Both the cover and the pickup mounting tabs differ from normal P90s. A standard P90 won't physically fit. You need a so-called 'short-neck' pickup. Remember this is not just the cover - the pickup frame is different, too. Fralin and Lollar both make short-neck P90s specifically for Casinos. You could also just have the Epis rewound.

I bought a Casino last year because my old ES-125 was getting too delicate to gig with, and I was nervous crossing the Swiss/German/French borders all the time with a guitar containing Brazilian rosewood and no papers. It stays in the house now. I was impressed by the Casino but the tone wasn't in the ballpark. It may have been out in the parking lot, but no closer. I put Fralins in it (along with a new harness, bridge, nut, and tuners) and it gets me nearly there - close enough not to matter on stage. As a benefit, the Fralins are rw/rp - so no hum when both are on. I did replace the standard black plastic with aftermarket black anodized nickel silver. You might have difficulty finding chrome covers to fit. I bought black because I never liked the look of chrome P90s, but wanted the shielding benefits. Lollar will rewind your Epi pickups if you want to keep the same look.

It's become one of my favorite guitars, and I don't have to worry about it on stage. Of course, I put nearly as much into upgrading it as it cost, but that's ok.

Steven

**Hep To The Jive** · 08-19-2018, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by Gitfiddler

Lollar P90's sound great, but do have some 60 cycle hum in the neck and bridge positions. They are however, hum cancelling in the middle position.

Hmm, can't have that- only neck pickup.

But I'm positive I saw a video comparison Lollar vs Kinman noiseless pickups. I liked Lollar a bit better, maybe it was a one off custom order?

**rintincop** · 08-20-2018, 08:17 PM

I have decided on a set of Seymour Duncan antiquity P90 pickups for my 2018 Epiphone Casino Coupe. will also get a pack of shims from Lollar. The Lollars sound to bright to me and the Duncan’s just right.

**Jabberwocky** · 08-21-2018, 06:38 AM

P-90 Pickups – McNelly Pickups

**rintincop** · 08-22-2018, 05:32 PM

P90 jazz pickups have great jazz sound. I have a 335 with Pro Humbuckers but they are boomy and mudier, imo. I have ordered black SD P90 Antiquity pickups ... I want the best warm jazz sound but with clarity and presence. Nest is the Princeton 65 reissue. I will want to raise its clean headroom with a new tube... but which one?

**neatomic** · 08-22-2018, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by rintincop

...the Princeton 65 reissue. I will want to raise its clean headroom with a new tube... but which one?

a 5751 or a 12ay7

a 12ax7 has a gain factor of 100...a 5751-70 and a 12ay7 -45...

they are also the closest related tubes...

some use 12at7's or 12au7's..but they are more like cousins to the 12ax7..not a perfect sub, especially in the gain stages

cheers

**Jimmy Mack** · 08-22-2018, 09:31 PM

And JJ pre-amp tubes, EC83 (?) are darker sounding. Some people like that, but it depends on the amp. I put one in a Tweed style amp and it just dulled the tone, but the harmonics and liveliness were still there.
Popular tubes, easy to find, and not expensive.

5751's are nice too.

**tony hammick** · 08-23-2018, 10:53 AM

Hi
I recently had a Pete Biltoft Charlie Christian floating pickup installed on an inexpensive Loar LH300 Archtop that I'd stopped using, having got hold of a 1937 L50.

I just wanted to say that the pickup makes is a pretty ok acoustic guitar into a really nice amplified acoustic, perfect for 1920s & 1930s style straight ahead jazz.

I'm in the UK and Pete's interest in, and help with choosing the pickup have been outstanding.

I'm guessing people on this forum will have seen the Fred Archtop You Tube posts, which inspired me in the first place, so thanks to Pete for his great service.

**Boogaloo** · 08-23-2018, 01:58 PM

FWIW, I love the mhs p90’s in my es 275. They love and handle lots of midrange. I was pleasantly surprised by this guitar, can’t put it down. I remember reading that they are wound around 9,000.