P90 Pickups for Jazz

**Norway** · 02-10-2012, 07:04 PM

I play a Gibson Byrdland with P90, great jazz tone.

**jorgemg1984** · 02-10-2012, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by Jazz_175

So in order to hear J. Hall playing with P90 should I look for the early recordings by him? Which one in particular?

I think his Evans, Farmer and Desmond records. Or his "Jazz Guitar" record.

**marcwhy** · 02-13-2012, 09:10 PM

I love P-90's for jazz! My main axe has one, and my new axe (in process) will have two.

Marc

**nado64** · 02-15-2012, 04:05 AM

Bare knuckle made P-90 designed for jazz : the half note and the manhattan.

**SOR** · 02-16-2012, 07:19 PM

I'm usually a humbucker guy but I did play a Godin Kingpin (the one everybody likes) yesterday for the first time and I was impressed with the P90's tone. My one concern is the noise level as I prefer a quiet pickup. It was impossible to determine the pickup's noise level at Guitar Center as you can imagine. For those familiar with that pickup how does it's noise level compare to a typical humbucker? Thanks for any info.

**mattymel** · 02-16-2012, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Jazz_175

So in order to hear J. Hall playing with P90 should I look for the early recordings by him? Which one in particular?

pretty much anything before the late 60s/early 70s. not sure on the exact year he butchered his 175 and put a guild HB in there with duct tape. ouch. sounds good still, hurt my heart to see.

but ALL the classic JH albums are p90: Interplay, The Bridge, both Bill Evans duets, Art Farmer stuff, Desmond stuff, Jimmy Giuffre stuff...

ive heard some of the Chico Hamilton where he is playing a 54' Les Paul Custom (black one) but thats still rockin the 90s. and still sounds like Jim but with a bit more treble to my ear.

ive never really understood why more jazz guys dont use them. i really think its 90% because they see other guys going with HB. in some ways Jazz guitar guys may be the ONLY musicians that maybe could benefit from more open minded gear obsession.

**Flyin' Brian** · 02-16-2012, 08:04 PM

I removed the humbucker from my Sweet 16 and replaced it with a Fralin P-92. (P-90 with no hum). I like the sound so much better, particularly on the bass strings.

**Norman931** · 02-17-2012, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by SOR

I'm usually a humbucker guy but I did play a Godin Kingpin (the one everybody likes) yesterday for the first time and I was impressed with the P90's tone. My one concern is the noise level as I prefer a quiet pickup. It was impossible to determine the pickup's noise level at Guitar Center as you can imagine. For those familiar with that pickup how does it's noise level compare to a typical humbucker? Thanks for any info.

The Kingpin pickup is well-engineered, and has gotten many positive ratings here, from myself as well as others. There is a little hum, but this is not an issue for me as I can usually minimize it by shifting position in relation to the amp. I love the tone, which is clear and sweet, especially as compared to the muddy sound of some humbuckers in this price range.

**mattymel** · 02-17-2012, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

I think his Evans, Farmer and Desmond records. Or his "Jazz Guitar" record.

to my ear this sounds more like his HB sound. not familiar with that record, but it def sounds like its from the mid70s so that would likely be Jim's DAquisto w/ HB...or maybe still the 175 cut up with a HB. i think he got the DA in 75', first record i see it with is "Live!"

**Northernblue** · 02-18-2012, 12:05 AM

Hello All

Just wanted to add to the discussion by saying I run my Kingpin through a Fender Blues Junior and the P90's are sweet. Sounds
reminiscent of the 50's.

**Retroman1969** · 06-05-2012, 10:35 PM

Lately I've been listening a lot to the earlier recordings of guys like Herb Ellis and Jim Hall, etc, and really getting into that classic P90 jazz sound. Thinking about maybe switching my stock PAF style pup on my AR371 to a P90 of some sort.

What are some of the better HB-sized P90 pups out there right now?
So far I'm looking at Vintage Vibe and Lollar.
I welcome any other advice about making such a switch as well.

Thanks in advance!

**AlohaJoe** · 06-05-2012, 10:51 PM

Pete at Vintage Vibe is easy to work with and reasonably priced IMO. I have his Vintage Vibe HCC and I love it... I'm sure his P90s are just as good. The Jason Lollar P90 also sounds fantastic and is worth considering.

**robertm2000** · 06-05-2012, 11:12 PM

I have a Pete Biltoft SP-90 in a Strat style guitar and it nails the tone. Pete could whip up a p-90 in just about any housing style or size you want.

**Retroman1969** · 06-05-2012, 11:16 PM

That sounds like the ticket. I'll try to contact him tomorrow if he's available.
I appreciate the extra info Robert!

**miken** · 06-06-2012, 09:50 AM

I put a Vintage Vibe HCC in my AR371 and I really regret it. I do not care for the sound at all. It is crazy noisy and way to bright. I talked about this in an thread a couple of months ago and someone warned about doing anything drastic, I should have listened. I'm still not crazy about the humbucker that it came with, but I will be swithching this back to a humbucker of some kind. I do have to say that the Charlie Christian pick up looks really cool in there, but not at all what I was expecting. Just something to think about.

**stevedenver** · 06-06-2012, 10:29 AM

simply
there are 2 non gibson p 90s on the market that imho, are extraordinary

lollar
wolfetone

both rival 50s gibsons in sound imho
lindy fralin is also reputed to make great p 90s

having had p90s and loving the tone, cut, and in particular, the raunch for rock -
i have had some really bad issues, occasionally with 60 cycle hum,

when it happens it can be really bad -terrible live unless you use a noise gate or something like a cut switch

careful and thorough sheilding (lots of foil in the cavity or underneath ) can help a great deal

i have stopped using p 90s as i find i just dont like having to use them in 'perfect' conditoins-but i agree there is nothing like the sound

another that i like a lot-but is an acquired taste, is the staple style, non adjustable pole piece single coils from gibson-sorta half p 90 half charlie christian-a bit darker but superb for jazz imho

**Hoji** · 06-06-2012, 10:33 AM

For about $80, there's the SD Phat Cat. I think it has Alnico IIs, which I like. I put one in my jp, going for the 40's/50's sound. I'm pretty happy with the results. I'll post more details and sound samples in an upcoming thread.

**Laro** · 06-06-2012, 10:38 AM

The "Parsons Street" P90 (not the modern version) from Stewart Mc Donald is quite impressive, too...

**jorgemg1984** · 06-06-2012, 10:49 AM

I like Bare Knucles Half-Note although I still have limited experience with it.

**Retroman1969** · 06-06-2012, 10:49 AM

Thank you guys for all the detailed replies. This is all the kind of information I was looking for to help me make a decision. I'll look at these other makers and contact them, and as for the brightness and hum.... that's a concern I had certainly. I need to find P90 archtops to try out locally to get the idea (Godin may be the closest I can get).

I'm not dissatisfied with the stock pup, but I know that they are typically bargain-basement stuff, and felt the guitar deserved an upgrade. Might upgrade to another 'bucker yet, but I wanted to look into this P90 option while I was at it.

Again, I really appreciate the help and advice!

P.S. Miken, do you have a link to that thread? I'd be interested in reading it. If not, I can search it out. Thanks!

**Archtop 13** · 06-07-2012, 05:08 AM

P90 too bright sounds like the pots did not get changed. If you are converting to single coils you need to put in 250k pots, or run your tone knobs at about 1/2. I use P90s quite a bit in my builds. Best vintage sound p90s Ive found are Lollar 50's wound. FYI, P90s can also be pretty sensitive to height adjustments. Take the time to get the pickup height/poles adjusted & you'll be a happy camper.

**Gabe** · 06-07-2012, 05:26 AM

I want to try a BKP Manhattan at some point:

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/mai...ckup=manhattan

**stevedenver** · 06-07-2012, 12:09 PM

caps and pots make a huge difference-more so when they are not the 'right ones'

speaking only for humbuckers, which i have the most experience, but by analogy, i have used the same value caps (.o22mf) -one ceramic , one oil in paper-(hovlands) , and the difference went from shrill brittle non-muscial to round and very upleasant-just so you know that these little things can really shape the tone

typcial fender single coils use 250 K pots
id imagine p 90s to use 300 k, but i dont know for sure

i know when i went from 300 to 500k on humbuckers the difference in clarity and treble was amazing

i can tell you that the right value really affects brightness-wrong pot and things can sound muddy
also, there are ways to build a tone circuit wher you DONT lose treble as you roll off voume--or ice picky depending

however on my archtop with an old johnny smith humbucker-i do lose treble when i lower the volume from max and i like it-really depends on how much verstility you desire in the particular guitar and the music you play-
if i were playing jump id want the treble

also you might look into audio verus linear taper-one has virtually no change between like 1-3 then full on-the other has more even response like a stereo volume control-each has its place-the rapid 'full on off' os better, imho, if you actively use the volume-ie wah or the like, as it takes a short roll with the pinky veruss rolling the entire range-the other allow for a wider and more usable volume-but no tricks-

and while its not my business-i would try to find p 90s that fit the humbucker slot-so no cutting-i know there are several like this available and it may limit you choices a good deal

**Doctor Jeff** · 06-07-2012, 03:13 PM

I like the Godin Kingpin p90--very versatile sound that's quite different from your usual HB overdriven sound.

Re' extra noise from ground currents, etc.--the ElectroHarmonix Hum Debugger did a great job for me in getting rid of it. When I first got my Kingpin, I was living in another house with old wiring and the hum was so bad I thought about selling the guitar. The EH pedal took care of the problem. I would highly recommend it if you play single coil pickups in places with dicey wiring situations.

**Archtop 13** · 06-07-2012, 06:45 PM

250k work well for P90's. I haven't played the kingpin, no idea there. I don't get too fancy with caps, but they are cheap enough that you can go which ever way suits your fancy. I would invest in good pots, some suppliers give you an option. Not worth it to go cheap. Again, the price difference is negligible.