Gibson ES-165 Herb Ellis question

[vinnyv1k]

They used to be dirt cheap. Sadly no more. I bought a used 96 for $900 and a new 2008 like Joe’s for $1700.
The best Gibson deals new used to be the HE, L4CES, and the TF.
Gone are those great prices.
The 1st TF I bought was a new 2008 and was $3K. Same price as a standard 175. My 2018 TF was $4600 after a lot of bargaining with CME. They wanted $7K for it because it was the last made. I waited them out till Dec. and they must have wanted it off the books.
They agreed to $4600 used no warranty. Still not a smoking deal at all.
The prices for a 175 on Reverb is quite shocking. 165’s cost more than new now.

[lammie200]

There are a few for sale yes but it remains a bit unclear what the best years are. I would like one with a not too chubby neck. SS suggested mid 90s, so not the earliest ones.

DB

I could be wrong but I doubt that the difference between any of the neck profiles is all that great. Mine is a '91 and supposed be chunky. I would say that it is more of a standard size profile that is slightly flat on the backside. If Gibson made them any thinner they would have had to have been very thin. Maybe they were - I don't know. My floater is a 2004 and the neck profile is very much the same as the '91. Comfortable with some meat but not a baseball bat.

[vinnyv1k]

Dick I found the early 2000’s 165’s to have a nice medium profile. Some 90’s were also great and some were baseball bats. They are all over the map just like 175’s. I really believe the neck profile depended on the hand size of the specific builder of that guitar neck.
I believe the 2003 was the best HE. Last year of the built in pu. 175 headstock and the only year with real pearl fingerboard inlays instead of pearloid plastic.

[Dutchbopper]

They used to be dirt cheap. Sadly no more. I bought a used 96 for $900 and a new 2008 like Joe’s for $1700.
The best Gibson deals new used to be the HE, L4CES, and the TF.
Gone are those great prices.
The 1st TF I bought was a new 2008 and was $3K. Same price as a standard 175. My 2018 TF was $4600 after a lot of bargaining with CME. They wanted $7K for it because it was the last made. I waited them out till Dec. and they must have wanted it off the books.
They agreed to $4600 used no warranty. Still not a smoking deal at all.
The prices for a 175 on Reverb is quite shocking. 165’s cost more than new now.

Prices are rising here too Vinny. A Herb Ellis cannot be obtained under 2000 euro. More like 2200-2500. An older ES175 3k and more. And I have see a winered Tal Farlow for sale at 4k euro.

Still, I hope to find one for 2k or under that even.

DB

[Dutchbopper]

Dick I found the early 2000’s 165’s to have a nice medium profile. Some 90’s were also great and some were baseball bats. They are all over the map just like 175’s. I really believe the neck profile depended on the hand size of the specific builder of that guitar neck.
I believe the 2003 was the best HE. Last year of the built in pu. 175 headstock and the only year with real pearl fingerboard inlays instead of pearloid plastic.

Vinny, I have seen a 2004 HE for sale with a normal humbucker. Must be one of the last ones before the new ones with the floaters?

DB

[Dutchbopper]

I could be wrong but I doubt that the difference between any of the neck profiles is all that great. Mine is a '91 and supposed be chunky. I would say that it is more of a standard size profile that is slightly flat on the backside. If Gibson made them any thinner they would have had to have been very thin. Maybe they were - I don't know. My floater is a 2004 and the neck profile is very much the same as the '91. Comfortable with some meat but not a baseball bat.

Thanks for that!

DB

[waltf]

i’ve seen a couple of es-165’s here for sale, all of them were 1900 euro. Some are still there.
But they all have fat necks and i want one with a slim neck.

[Max405]

I could be wrong but I doubt that the difference between any of the neck profiles is all that great. Mine is a '91 and supposed be chunky. I would say that it is more of a standard size profile that is slightly flat on the backside. If Gibson made them any thinner they would have had to have been very thin. Maybe they were - I don't know. My floater is a 2004 and the neck profile is very much the same as the '91. Comfortable with some meat but not a baseball bat.

Lammie,
I TOTALLY Agree. The necks are actually kind of perfect to me. Not even close to the thickness of the neck on my Solid Formed - which is still very comfortable to me.
The only neck I had on a Gibson that was borderline chunky was a ES135. That was a head shaker..
JD

[Dutchbopper]

Lammie,
I TOTALLY Agree. The necks are actually kind of perfect to me. Not even close to the thickness of the neck on my Solid Formed - which is still very comfortable to me.
The only neck I had on a Gibson that was borderline chunky was a ES135. That was a head shaker..
JD

Guys I have no experience with the HE. I only write what I read. Maybe they are all perfect for me too.

DB

[waltf]

Prices are rising here too Vinny. A Herb Ellis cannot be obtained under 2000 euro. More like 2200-2500. An older ES175 3k and more. And I have see a winered Tal Farlow for sale at 4k euro.

Still, I hope to find one for 2k or under that even.

DB

did that tal farlow sell? Damn i got a good deal. But marktplaats prices are getting crazy. Now i see es-125’s with an asking price of 3500 euro.
3 months ago i just missed one at 1000 euro..
But it’s not even old archtops, 70’s teles and strats that you couldnt sell 10 years ago because nobody wanted them are now worth 3000.
All squier sellers think they can ask squier jv prices..

[waltf]

Can we talk about the actual size then. From top of the first fret till the back of the neck? My es-175 vos is 25mm, my tal farlow 22mm.
The 22mm to me is perfect. Might even be persuaded by something a bit smaller.

[vinnyv1k]

Vinny, I have seen a 2004 HE for sale with a normal humbucker. Must be one of the last ones before the new ones with the floaters?

DB

I would bag it. A single pu 175 with gold hardware. I do believe they went to the floater mid year 2004.
I personally don’t like the floater 165. Very bright and the volume knob is in the way for at least me.

Gibson also did a limited run of single pu 175’s in 2006 and 2008 called the 175SP. They had yellowed binding but no VOS treatment and a nickel zigzag tail.
The vintage sunburst was a little on the green side though.

[lawson-stone]

Guys I have no experience with the HE. I only write what I read. Maybe they are all perfect for me too.

DB

Would an actual measurement help at all?

[Dutchbopper]

Would an actual measurement help at all?

Yeah, but only in European metric units!!!!! Ah man. I really do not understand inches, feet, miles, yards, ounces, stones and what have you ...

DB

[Dutchbopper]

I would bag it. A single pu 175 with gold hardware. I do believe they went to the floater mid year 2004.
I personally don’t like the floater 165. Very bright and the volume knob is in the way for at least me.

Gibson also did a limited run of single pu 175’s in 2006 and 2008 called the 175SP. They had yellowed binding but no VOS treatment and a nickel zigzag tail.
The vintage sunburst was a little on the green side though.

Would you bag it for over 2k Vinny? I'm serious here.

DB

[lawson-stone]

Yeah, but only in European metric units!!!!! Ah man. I really do not understand inches, feet, miles, yards, ounces, stones and what have you ...

DB

I don't understand "stones" and... I am one.

[Dutchbopper]

I don't understand "stones" and... I am one.

Stones. Yeah. Them Brits are even worse. Pints and Quarters and other medieval nonsense.

DB

[lammie200]

Lammie,
I TOTALLY Agree. The necks are actually kind of perfect to me. Not even close to the thickness of the neck on my Solid Formed - which is still very comfortable to me.
The only neck I had on a Gibson that was borderline chunky was a ES135. That was a head shaker..
JD

I also think that there is an essential balance between neck mass and the body characteristics for guitars like these. If that balance is off one way or the other I think the sound is going to suffer. Whether Gibson strikes that balance on all its guitars is probably questionable. However, whether Gibson knows how to do it a different question. They have obviously been at it long enough to know how. My 2 cents anyway.

[vinnyv1k]

Would you bag it for over 2k Vinny? I'm serious here.

DB

If minty.....yes. Remember it is really a single pu 175. That is what they go for here also. I can remember the outrage I felt when a new L5 reached $5K.
Before the demise of the 175 in 2017 the street price new was over $5K.
I bought my 1st Gibson in 1973. Since then the prices only went up both new and used. If you want a G on the headstock your bank account will suffer.
You can make more money but a special guitar is priceless. example: your 350.

[neatomic]

even the epi zephyr regent, which a few years ago was around the 500$ mark, is now being listed for around 1k$ and more!!



cheers

[Dutchbopper]

If minty.....yes. Remember it is really a single pu 175. That is what they go for here also. I can remember the outrage I felt when a new L5 reached $5K.
Before the demise of the 175 in 2017 the street price new was over $5K.
I bought my 1st Gibson in 1973. Since then the prices only went up both new and used. If you want a G on the headstock your bank account will suffer.
You can make more money but a special guitar is priceless. example: your 350.

Thanks again Vinny.

DB

[uriah]

I love the red ES-165. I so wanted a red one to go with my other red Gibsons. Thing is, a few years ago prices were high so, I was able to get a red/gold ES-175 (which apparently no one wants in a ES-175 color combo) for just a few hundred more, so I went that route.

First lefty I've seen, had several 165s never even heard of a lefty. Cool.

[Dutchbopper]

even the epi zephyr regent, which a few years ago was around the 500$ mark, is now being listed for around 1k$ and more!!



cheers

It's crazy. You see vintage ES 125s go for 3500 euro. Vintage ES 175s go for way over 10k. I have no idea what's going on but everything seems to be moving up rapidly. Why the heck is that?

DB

[lammie200]

I actually have one of those Epi's as well. It was $450 shipped with a case a few years back. After I joined JGF I started to get more serious about playing jazz and got sucked into acquiring an arsenal. I never broke the bank but I feel like have acquired what really works for me. I have both HE's, an ES-390, the Epi, six different Fender-type partscasters, Martin steel and nylon string acoustics, and a couple of others that may be on the chopping block at some point.

[Cunamara]

It's crazy. You see vintage ES 125s go for 3500 euro. Vintage ES 175s go for way over 10k. I have no idea what's going on but everything seems to be moving up rapidly. Why the heck is that?

Apparently it is "what the market will bear." It's not what I will bear, so I'm not going to be buying any Gibson archtop guitars I suspect. There is quite a gap between what I can afford and what I'm willing to pay, I guess! I suspect that the prices have gone up because of Gibson's dire straits as an organization and that they're no longer making archtop guitars other than as custom instruments for way-higher-than-luthier prices. As the cost of new Gibson archtops has gone up over the years, the used market has paced just a little bit behind that.