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I think we all can agree that our love for Archtop guitars is a beautiful thing. When you get bit by the Archtop bug you will never recover.
Such a great passion. Doesn’t matter what strings you like or if you are a acoustic or electric player. There is something very special about Archtops that no other guitar can deliver.
Marco summed it up best : working art.
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10-10-2020 12:20 PM
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I think the Perry Beekman video up front is an acoustic guitar. Solely acoustic, no pickup and amp involved. The other videos are acoustic guitars with pickups and recorded with the guitar plugged in. They all sound great, but it's kind of comparing apples to oranges. A solely acoustic guitar and a guitar run through a pickup and an amp are different animals.
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My answer to the original question is, yes, that's a great example of a modern carved archtop played acoustically, without amplification.
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I started this thread knowing that many opinions would flow. The fact is that we all have different ears and perceive sound differently. There is no "better" choice in archtop guitars, just different choices. And how the player plays, what strings are used and how the guitar is recorded all contribute to differences in sound as well.
I do think that Jimmy D'Aquisto moved the archtop sound closer to the Martin flattop sound by design. And most modern archtop luthiers have followed his lead. As we see in the clips in this thread, Trenier builds guitars with both the D'Aquisto/Benedetto/Buscarino sound and the older Gibson/Epiphone/D'Angelico/Stromberg/Guild sound. The fact that he can do both so well is surely the sign of a master builder.
Bronze strings will provide a different sound than nickel strings and flatwounds will provide an even different acoustic experience.
Some players will prefer the solid body experience for their jazz guitar passion, for others it might be the nylon string, the Selmer style or even the venerable flattop (Tommy Emmanuel does jazz guitar on a Martin like nobody's business).
Even among archtop players there are different choices, laminates vs carved. Floaters vs built in pups, humbuckers vs. single coil.
My advice? Find the guitar (or guitars) that inspire your playing and play the hell out of them. Life is short, enjoy the ride.
And thanks to all who participated in this thread.....
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I've never seen Tommy Emmanuel playing a Martin. Maton has some of the same letters in the name, but they are made half a world away. True, they have a similar sound, though.
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As someone who builds the occasional archtop, I have to quibble a little with the idea that modern archtop luthiers are going for a “Martin” sound. I am perfectly capable of making a Martin dreadnaught (and have), if that is what I want. I don’t. I think that holds true for just about any serious luthier building archtops.
What characterizes a dreadnaught to my ears are the characteristic boomy lows and sparkling highs. They are the weapon of choice for Joan Baez or James Taylor to sing their lullabies. They leave room for and support the human voice well. If you are a self accompanied singer you would be hard pressed to find a better instrument.
What I don’t feel they do well is fill those mids for single note lines and melodies in lieu of a singer. What I’m looking for in an acoustic archtop is an instrument that provide the full range as a solo instrument. The “lap piano” concept, if you will.
It is a real technical challenge, and as much as anything that is what appeals to me. Making a good “Martin” is a dawdle compared to making a “good” acoustic archtop guitar.
I love that old time sound of a vintage Epiphone. But I don’t think luthiers are moving away from that just to try to copy Martin. I think we are chasing a different aesthetic. I like to imagine what “Virtuoso” would have sounded like with a decent sound engineer and a modern acoustic archtop.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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Hey Omphalopsychos,
To pull this thread way off topic, what are you using to capture the stills/videos of your gear? Very crisp with some nicely differentiated depth of field.
Thanks.
As for the original topic, variety is the spice of life. I find something to appreciate in the sound of all these superlative instruments and certainly would not feel deprived if I was fortunate enough to have access to any of them.
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My bad, I meant Martin style. Tommy is listed on the Martin website as a Martin guitar player.
Originally Posted by sgosnell
https://www.martinguitar.com/players/tommy-emmanuel/
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I do not think the dreadnaught is the Martin guitar that best represents the intersection of the Martin flattop and Gibson Archtop sound. The OM, with it's more balanced sound is probably a better comparison. And maybe even the shorter scaled 000. Originally Posted by rlrhett
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Here's Tommy with a small, all-mahogany Martin: Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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A couple thoughts on acoustic archtop sound and flattop guitar comparisons:
- The sound of Perry’s guitar sounds very familiar to me. It sounds very much like my 17” Trenier Artifex archtop with bronze strings on it. Yes, the guitar’s acoustic tone has both sustain and some overtone content. Acoustically, the overtones diminish with nickel round wounds (even more-so with nickel flatwounds). Keep in mind that I asked Bryant for this in my tonal target. Plugged in at small room volumes, a warm electric tone takes the front seat, but the player is still treated to a harmonically rich experience.
- In my opinion, this is simply the result of a lightly built, x-brace body whose plates have been tuned to work together. Yes, this is the modern archtop sound first explored by the late great Jimmy D’Aquisto. These guitars do sound different from the acoustic archtops from D’Angelico, Epiphone and Gibson from the 1920s and 1930s. They were not designed as solo instruments in my opinion but as banjo replacements in bands. They project, have wonderful string-to-string clarity with somewhat cutting trebles. I think that these may be better acoustic tools in a band context, but for me as a solo instrument, I personally prefer the modern sound, but I can understand opposing opinions.
- Regarding tonal comparisons to acoustic flattops, I directionally understand why some of you made the comparison (sustain and overtones etc.) but in my opinion, the modern acoustic archtop is a completely different animal. The level of bass response and harmonic complexity of the modern archtop pales in comparison to what flattops are capable of producing. This is by design and Differences in how they work. Conversely no flattop will ever have the speed of attack, string-to string clarity or strength in the upper registers that an archtop has. I also would add that the world of acoustic flattops is far more diverse than archtops in terms of design, materials, and size. On this forum there is a tendency to think of a CF Martin Dreadnought or OM, but the world flattops is far more diverse than that in my experience.
Last edited by iim7V7IM7; 10-11-2020 at 01:39 PM.
- The sound of Perry’s guitar sounds very familiar to me. It sounds very much like my 17” Trenier Artifex archtop with bronze strings on it. Yes, the guitar’s acoustic tone has both sustain and some overtone content. Acoustically, the overtones diminish with nickel round wounds (even more-so with nickel flatwounds). Keep in mind that I asked Bryant for this in my tonal target. Plugged in at small room volumes, a warm electric tone takes the front seat, but the player is still treated to a harmonically rich experience.
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Bob, your post was excellent and informative. And yes, I knew that the Trenier as played by Perry was the modern archtop sound, I just wanted to stir the pot for some interesting discussion Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7
Sometimes when I hear players describe guitar tone, it reminds me of wine tasting or whiskey tasting reviews, but as one develops a palate (whether for wine, whiskey or guitars), subtle differences do stand out and we use words as best we can to describe them.
The great thing about archtops for me is that they provide both a visual, as well as a sonic experience. With so many talented luthiers making archtops over the last few decades, there truly are great guitars to suit every taste. Just as the Creator has made beautiful women of many sorts since the beginning of our species to suit every taste in men (which has certainly kept the species going).
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Vinny, I'm still laughing! You are something man. 'blown speaker', 'archtop whore'. Made my Sunday morning light up dude. Thank you my friend. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
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I find Julian Lage's approach on his vintage L5 very attractive, the tones he gets, how he is exploiting the guitar's character - looks like the guitar is strung with nickel strings and his stupendous left hand technique results in an almost squiek-free performance.
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To clarify post #13 - which Coolvinny brought to my attention , here is response from Bryant:
Hi Steve,
This guitar is solid woods. First I made him the black guitar, with a laminated back and solid top, then this guitar, and most recently a fully laminated Jazz Special.
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Julian uses nickel plated phosphor bronze strings (12-53) Originally Posted by gitman
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I hope I'm not hijacking, but I'd love to see someone recreate a 1937 Epiphone Broadway, much like Benedetto made the Guild AA model for a few years. I'd even be interested to see how much it would cost me. Originally Posted by rlrhett
Last edited by Kirk1701; 10-17-2020 at 07:44 PM.
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The modern archtop tone is tempered by the modern amplifier.
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I think when it comes to the amplified tone in combo settings, laminate archtops (even semihollow's) sound better than the carved (modern or vintage) archtops from the audience perspective. The carved ones may sound better from the player perspective if the gig isn't very loud.
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Since covid and playing only at home in privacy, I have been drawn to this kind of tone. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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I suspect that I would enjoy playing that guitar......with flatwound strings. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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\ Originally Posted by Kirk1701
Some time ago I acquired the rough-carved back, top, and sides for an Epiphone Emperor, carved back in the 1940's. In a few years when i retire, i want to take up luthiery and at some point, try to use these to construct an Emperor. I have a long way to go and will have much to learn, but maybe 7-8 years from now I'll be playing a 1940's style Emperor.
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Yes, you've mentioned this before. I'm totally jell. You wouldn't consider selling would you? Originally Posted by lawson-stone
Last edited by Kirk1701; 10-17-2020 at 07:45 PM.
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Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
Molly's flat out got one of the best picking hands in the business right now.
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I'd have to be offered a lot of money. This was a great find. I actually hope the wood isn't TOO old to be used. I'm not inflexibly opposed to selling, but it would need to be enough to compensate my original purpose and make me feel good about giving up on ever using it. Originally Posted by Kirk1701
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