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  1. #1

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    I have been on the hunt for a beat up, but good playing es 125 Gibson for a while. I found an interesting one on the web and spoke to the shop, looked at all the photos and felt good about the deal. When it arrived it was packaged well, played good and sounded amazing (especially through my amp). This is also a guitar for my slide playing 19 year old daughter to play. She loves it.

    THE PROBLEM - No one at the store had mention (or shown photos) that the top had sunken. I knew it had some repaired cracks but the pick guard hid a big top face crack. I took it to my luthier that was a former Gibson luthier. He works on ES guitars for big names in Nashville (I almost scored the ES 125 used by the Black Crows guitar player).
    He said that at some point in time someone stabilized the sunken top and internally all structures were solid. He said to take it home and play the crap out of it without worry. If any issues arose he said he could fix it no problem.

    THE QUESTION - I could send this 56 ES 125 back (for $100). It is full of mojo, sounds amazing, and I like the neck and how it plays. I paid $1,300 plus shipping for this. Would you keep this guitar given the info above? I'm totally 50/50 on the fence. I don't think I could ever sell it but if my daughter is going to keep it then that doesn't matter.

    Thoughts?

    (Links to photos)

    Imgur: The magic of the Internet

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  3. #2

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    Should you or she ever need to sell it, you would be disclosing those negatives that the store did not. Could you get that same price on resale? That's one of the things that guide me in such situations. Also, do you feel misled? I ask specifically about top sink, ask for side pics to try and assess it. Not always easy to pick up from the pics. So for me, having specifically asked about that, I would feel misled on receiving such an instrument. But that's me, not you. May not apply at all here.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyHell

    THE QUESTION - I could send this 56 ES 125 back (for $100). It is full of mojo, sounds amazing, and I like the neck and how it plays. I paid $1,300 plus shipping for this. Would you keep this guitar given the info above?
    If you love the guitar and it has the magic to inspire you to play, my suggestion would be to contact the seller and note that you feel the item was not represented accurately. Consider what you will do if the discount is offered.

    On the other hand, there are many, many old ES-125 guitars out there. I bought one last year, a '58 in very good condition, no cracks and no issues for not much more than you paid.
    Last edited by Michael Neverisky; 09-08-2020 at 11:47 AM.

  5. #4

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    Keep it and when You want to sell it, come to EU and get about 2500€ (2947,84$) for it.

    Seriously, a tough question. Depends a bit on such things that could You wait a new one to pop up if You send this back.

    I believe that in the case of selling You’ll get the same back. The price of these beauties haven’t decreasing in ten years or so.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Neverisky
    I you love the guitar and it has the magic to inspire you to play, my suggestion would be to contact the seller and note that you feel the item was not represented accurately. Consider what you will do if the discount is offered.

    On the other hand, there are many, many old ES-125 guitars out there. I bought one last year, a '58 in very good condition, no cracks and no issues for not much more than you paid.
    I totally agree. Definitely contact the seller. At least seek a discount. It could be that you would come out well after the luthier fixes it. But I also have an ES-125 bought for not much more, similar condition. There are many others out there. If this problem bothers you now, it will bother you more as time goes on, in my opinion.

  7. #6

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    The previously done top repair not having been mentioned is always an issue- -but maybe not so mush on this particular guitar, and for yourself.....
    Personally, I feel the most important thing for you both now and in the future, is the fact that you have a local luthier who used to work at Gibson - who's available. That is huge !
    And the fact that he's inspected it and says it's fine is also a big deal !

    Now, that having been said - you may be at the point in the market where you need to spend some more money but could then basically get twice the instrument in better condition, because you've got that luthier to both inspect what you may find and then do any needed repairs. I have to believe this is going to be the most money for this guitar from now on- - and the next prospective buyer - -if he just doesn't like that mojo - -won't care if the top had been expertly repaired. The condition just won't make up for it for him.

    But hey if you like this one's mojo, and having gotten that luthier's approval of it, go ahead.

    Just my .02 cents.

    Good luck.

  8. #7

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    I had this guitar boxed up and ready to ship but doing so actually made me sad. I stayed up late looking at what I could potentially purchase if I had my $1,300 back right now. I would need to drop much more coin. So this morning I unboxed the 56 and took it to my luthier, explained that one day this would be my daughters guitar and while we both love the mojo and tone I wanted to make sure the thing never became unplayable. He agreed that if I was a collector he would tell me to send it back but since I'm looking for a player it is fine. He also agreed it sounded too good and looked too cool to send back. So I left it with him to get in there and make sure it was good for the next decade. I could have waited but I have lost so many luthiers over the years - one minute they are a call away and the next they have moved to Florida. So I'm keeping the 56 and getting the work done now. I really appreciate the input. When it comes to my guitars I over think everything (that's part of the fun). I love the sound so much (I can sound acoustic and dirty) that I'm thinking about selling my Godin Multiac Steel HG and buying a 60's Epiphone thin body ES.
    Last edited by BillyHell; 09-08-2020 at 12:41 PM.

  9. #8

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    Even though you've decided to keep the ES 125 and have your local guitar repairman/luthier shore it up, I'd still recommend contacting the seller.
    Inform him of the issues as well as your efforts to correct an undisclosed crack and sunken top. Take photos of everything to back up your claim and send it to the seller.

    The least they should do is offer to reimburse you for the repairs. That would be the right thing to do and show good faith as a seller of used and vintage guitars. They had the duty to thoroughly inspect the instrument prior to selling it and advise of any visible issues...even if it was under the pick guard.

    It sounds like you got yourself a very cool ES 125 that you plan to keep in your family for years to come. Notifying the seller and giving them a chance to do what is right will only add to your joy as the years go by.

  10. #9

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    Will do. I actually got photos of the internal cracks. I just got word that the original repairs had already been done over 15 years ago.

  11. #10

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    Seller might (rightfully) argue that the price (1300$ for a 1956 ES 125) already reflects the repair that's done. I can't imagine that guitar selling for less even if it had sunken top repair. Most laminate guitars from that era have sunken tops to one extend or another.

  12. #11

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    Could you post a pic of the guitar’s top as taken from the side? I’m curious to see how sunken the top is.

  13. #12

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  14. #13

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    #wzpgsr This link should take you to all of the photos....
    1956 Gibson ES 125 - Album on Imgur1956 ES 125 Ordered from online store - Has repaired sunken top...Input-img_0605-jpg1956 ES 125 Ordered from online store - Has repaired sunken top...Input-img_0602-jpg1956 ES 125 Ordered from online store - Has repaired sunken top...Input-img_0623-jpg1956 ES 125 Ordered from online store - Has repaired sunken top...Input-img_0606-jpg1956 ES 125 Ordered from online store - Has repaired sunken top...Input-img_0623-jpg

  15. #14

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    That is a great point and why I brought my question here. I think it is probably a $1,000 guitar.

  16. #15

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    Some other points - this has new frets as of 10 years ago and new tuners. Maybe that has a part in why I enjoy playing it. I'm as fast on this neck as any I own. It doesn't play like my Godin Multiac Steel HG up and down the neck - BUT I enjoy playing the ES a lot more...go figure.

  17. #16

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    if that one is $1300, I'd email the seller of the one I linked and see if he'd take $1500 for his.
    if he would, for the extra $200 it looks a lot nicer and much easier to move if you ever did have to sell it. heck I'd probably be even willing to pay his full $1700
    just my opinion for what it's worth and no affiliation of course.

  18. #17

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    the bridge saddle is jacked up a bit high..thats why it's tilting as well


    if you do keep it, get a spacer for the p90...the screws shouldn't be that high out of the pickup...p90's have the magnet below the bobbin, so you want to raise the entire pup up closer to the strings..not boost the screws

    luck

    cheers

  19. #18

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    Spacer shims ordered from Mojotone.

  20. #19

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    I have gone back and forth over this concept - spend more money and get a more perfect guitar. I'm in $100 for shipping, it would be $100 to ship back. Then the shipping on the new guitar. If I could do it all over again I would not have purchased this 56 but I did want a guitar that looked beat up and played and sounded great. This is exactly what the 56 is.

  21. #20

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    I think full disclosure is the important issue. The dealer should not be able to get away with selling the guitar without informing you of all of the issues [and his "ignorance" is not an excuse]. Whether you like the guitar or not should not take precedent over the fact it is structurally flawed and he is getting away with shady dealings. If he does it with you he'll keep doing it to others.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by myhandhurts
    I think full disclosure is the important issue. The dealer should not be able to get away with selling the guitar without informing you of all of the issues [and his "ignorance" is not an excuse]. Whether you like the guitar or not should not take precedent over the fact it is structurally flawed and he is getting away with shady dealings. If he does it with you he'll keep doing it to others.
    In total agreement! Maybe if BillyHell knew about the issues before hand because the dealer disclosed them, he would have still purchased the guitar at a fair price taking the issues into account. But, I ended up in a similar situation and felt taken advantage of. Although, I now enjoy the guitar, that feeling has never left me and I will never do business with that dealer again. It's just unethical.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Eisele
    In total agreement! Maybe if BillyHell knew about the issues before hand because the dealer disclosed them, he would have still purchased the guitar at a fair price taking the issues into account. But, I ended up in a similar situation and felt taken advantage of. Although, I now enjoy the guitar, that feeling has never left me and I will never do business with that dealer again. It's just unethical.
    I am repeating myself. But to me it's obvious: Why not contact the seller? For the reasons discussed earlier in the thread.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil59
    I am repeating myself. But to me it's obvious: Why not contact the seller? For the reasons discussed earlier in the thread.
    Yes, it would be reasonable to do so. And, I did contact the seller regarding my situation, but I didn't discover the problem until it was way past the return period. Unfortunately, I didn't get anywhere. But in this case, this transaction is fairly recent. Can't hurt.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Eisele
    In total agreement! Maybe if BillyHell knew about the issues before hand because the dealer disclosed them, he would have still purchased the guitar at a fair price taking the issues into account. But, I ended up in a similar situation and felt taken advantage of. Although, I now enjoy the guitar, that feeling has never left me and I will never do business with that dealer again. It's just unethical.
    YUp, that "nice guy" that was facilitating our purchase of his used guitar suddenly reveals his true colours as a snake when he gets your money and will screw you on a technicality. I make sure I know all the facts before I pay anybody [but, I also don't buy anything in the mail unless I already know the dealer] There are more sniveling punks out there trying to do business on the internet everyday and it's making it harder to avoid a scam.

  26. #25

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    I'd send it back and count the $200 as tuition. To need that much bridge and pickup height it wasn't done right. Something like this I'd view as a project to soften the glue if you could figure out what they used or re break it and start over, with maybe some carbon fiber uni on the top underside.
    In both cases use new braces to support the correct contour. In which case maybe $500 - $700 would be appropriate, my pricing of worth is probably not current but.....

    You and your daughter would appreciate the difference, play one that is closer to spec and see. Projects are great if they are a bargain, this isn't. Bargain projects are also great in that you can go to town on mods if you want and won't be hurting the "value". So I say save and think of the money spent as a rental to get a base line comparison or bargain down. When doing a repair one shouldn't build in the collapse but restore the contour. Another thing to think of is the bridge height and break angle are putting more string tension into that flat top, not easing the load. That might beef up the acoustic sound but it doesn't make it more stable unless they put in a sound post.