Tube amp jazz guitar recommendation

[Tal_175]

One has to take the opinions shared in youtube channels of guitar stores with a grain of salt. Fender dealership is extremely hard to get and Fender can cut the dealership anytime. I know this from a highly respected local store here that's been trying to carry Fender products for years.

They are not gonna say 1000 dollar Fender amp sounds exactly the same as the 3000 dollar one after 130 dollar speaker change on a popular channel and risk pissing off Fender.

[christianm77]

One has to take the opinions shared in youtube channels of guitar stores with a grain of salt. Fender dealership is extremely hard to get and Fender can cut the dealership anytime. I know this from a highly respected local store here that's been trying to carry Fender products for years.

They are not gonna say 1000 dollar Fender amp sounds exactly the same as the 3000 dollar one after 130 dollar speaker change on a popular channel and risk pissing off Fender.

I think you mistook my line 'I'm not a connoisseur' to mean what it did at face value instead of the implied 'I'm a professional guitar player who uses a Fender Princeton Reverb for gigs and recording and I'm buggered if I can hear a difference between the two after the speaker swap, but it's your money.' At this point, knowing that most gear YT'er's have a financial interest in gear videos (and I can see how these relationships form and I'm not judging), I go to Josh at JHS's YouTube channel for refreshing opinions like 'hey, Behringer are great!", 'Boss are my favourite pedal company' and my favourite 'a circuit is a circuit' because he owns the company and can say whatever he likes....

I think you definitely pay a Fender fee.... there's a few great amps for that price range. If I was looking for a $2k-ish handwired 15-watt(wish) Fender BF style amp, I would look into Milkman, Cornell, Morgan etc.

[Tal_175]

I think you mistook my line 'I'm not a connoisseur' to mean what it did at face value instead of the implied 'I'm a professional guitar player who uses a Fender Princeton Reverb for gigs and recording and I'm buggered if I can hear a difference between the two after the speaker swap, but it's your money.' At this point, knowing that most gear YT'er's have a financial interest in gear videos (and I can see how these relationships form and I'm not judging), I go to Josh at JHS's YouTube channel for refreshing opinions like 'hey, Behringer are great!", 'Boss are my favourite pedal company' and my favourite 'a circuit is a circuit' because he owns the company and can say whatever he likes....

I think you definitely pay a Fender fee.... there's a few great amps for that price range. If I was looking for a $2k-ish handwired 15-watt(wish) Fender BF style amp, I would look into Milkman, Cornell, Morgan etc.

Just FYI. Actually my post was a general remark about these videos, I got what you meant and I didn't mean it as a response to your post.

[christianm77]

BTW I’m pleased to report the Nando’s was exceptionally cheeky, although I had to have a snooze afterwards to recover.

[Doug B]

I quote:

mate it’s hard to explain mate it’s just like one day you’ll just be wif your mates having a look in jd and you might fancy curry club at the ‘Spoons but your lad Calum who’s an absolute ledge and the archbishop of banterbury will be like ‘brevs lets have a cheeky nandos instead.” and you’ll think “Top. Let’s smash it.”[1]

[1] All Things Linguistic

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Easy for you to say!

[Doug B]

Duplicate.

[wzpgsr]

TBH I couldn’t tell much difference between the prri with the speaker swap and the handwired one. But I’m not much of a connoisseur.

As I understand the main reason to get handwired amps because the repair guys won’t roll their eyes at you when you bring it around to be fixed.

It’s not eye rolling in the cork-sniffin’ sense as much as it is the ease with which an amp tech can troubleshoot and repair a handwired tube amp vs. a PCB. I don’t speak from personal experience, but from the word of a friend who builds and repairs tube amps. He has enough business doing the stuff he loves, which is repairing tube amps, that he can turn away solid state repairs if he wants.

[christianm77]

It’s not eye rolling in the cork-sniffin’ sense as much as it is the ease with which an amp tech can troubleshoot and repair a handwired tube amp vs. a PCB. I don’t speak from personal experience, but from the word of a friend who builds and repairs tube amps. He has enough business doing the stuff he loves, which is repairing tube amps, that he can turn away solid state repairs if he wants.

That's what I meant. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[wzpgsr]

That's what I meant. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

I’ll stop rolling my eyes at you if you stop rolling your eyes at me.

[Eck]

One has to take the opinions shared in youtube channels of guitar stores with a grain of salt. Fender dealership is extremely hard to get and Fender can cut the dealership anytime. I know this from a highly respected local store here that's been trying to carry Fender products for years.

They are not gonna say 1000 dollar Fender amp sounds exactly the same as the 3000 dollar one after 130 dollar speaker change on a popular channel and risk pissing off Fender.

On speaker swap, I’ve got a Laney Cub 10 and there’s a huge forum on changing tubes and speaker. Mine’s got the original Chinese Celestion and at low frequencies it booms horribly. Got me into Jensen, spending hours listening to samples on their superb website. Then I picked one up on eBay put it into another amp, which had an opening for a horn that I left open and similar boom was heard. Closed the opening and really good sound. Back to the Laney, which has a completely open back. So before I buy another speaker that can work with an open back I’m going to close it....
BTW there is an older post about turning a Fender Ramparte into the perfect jazz amp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hammertone]

The answer is obvious. there only ONE tube amp that will properly satisfy the OP's needs. And it's for sale on this very forum, right here:
Princeton Reverb clone with a twist - "this amp really boogies!"

[Herbie]

(...)my primary amp is a tweed Deluxe. However, mine is modded to be able to roll off the bass frequencies (...)

Interesting! Modded how?

The OP asked weight of the PRRI. It is 34 lbs, answered the Google.

[christianm77]

I’ll stop rolling my eyes at you if you stop rolling your eyes at me.

Typical

[bluejaybill]

It’s not eye rolling in the cork-sniffin’ sense as much as it is the ease with which an amp tech can troubleshoot and repair a handwired tube amp vs. a PCB. I don’t speak from personal experience, but from the word of a friend who builds and repairs tube amps. He has enough business doing the stuff he loves, which is repairing tube amps, that he can turn away solid state repairs if he wants.

The original amps have old capacitors, resisters and transformers. That affects the sound somewhat, so much so that one boutique maker I know (I have one of his amps) uses NOS parts in many places of his amps. I had never heard that resistors can make a difference before. I have heard that the blue (Mallory?) caps on a black face Fender do make a difference.

Some would say that the originals sound richer, more complex etc, and I suppose that's either subjective or cork sniffing. All I can say definitely is that I won't be letting go of my vintage Deluxe Reverb, Vox, Marshall etc any time soon. I do like some of the boutique ones as well; for instance I have a Fat Jimmy (US west coast brand) that has a bit of brown era DNA in the circuit of what is mostly a blackface amp with some other tweaks, and it sounds great for jazz.

I seem to remember reading that a tweed Deluxe was the "house amp" at Rudy Van Gelder's studio, and i guess we all no how definitive those guitar tones are! But I wouldn't be trying to gig with one, they just don't stay clean at band volumes.

[Greentone]

I've made amps with new and old parts. I can't tell the difference between new and old caps and resistors.

I can tell the difference between new and old transformers and speakers. Sometimes, though, I prefer the new speaker.

[rpjazzguitar]

I've posted this before, so sorry for the repetition, but it's relevant.

My first amp was a 64 Reverberocket, which I still have and sounds great, even with a replacement speaker and mostly new tubes.

What is surprising though, is that it didn't sound all that different from the Little Jazz, except the LJ was cleaner on chords.

They didn't sound exactly the same, but pretty close. I added reverb in front of each amp with a Boss ME80 and then added a little more from the amp. I adjusted EQ to get my sound. I didn't leave them each flat (as if I would know how to do that with a single treble cut tone control on the Ampeg).

The Ampeg went into the closet. I started using the LJ even for rehearsals at home.

[christianm77]

The original amps have old capacitors, resisters and transformers. That affects the sound somewhat, so much so that one boutique maker I know (I have one of his amps) uses NOS parts in many places of his amps. I had never heard that resistors can make a difference before. I have heard that the blue (Mallory?) caps on a black face Fender do make a difference.

Some would say that the originals sound richer, more complex etc, and I suppose that's either subjective or cork sniffing. All I can say definitely is that I won't be letting go of my vintage Deluxe Reverb, Vox, Marshall etc any time soon. I do like some of the boutique ones as well; for instance I have a Fat Jimmy (US west coast brand) that has a bit of brown era DNA in the circuit of what is mostly a blackface amp with some other tweaks, and it sounds great for jazz.

I seem to remember reading that a tweed Deluxe was the "house amp" at Rudy Van Gelder's studio, and i guess we all no how definitive those guitar tones are! But I wouldn't be trying to gig with one, they just don't stay clean at band volumes.

It's a selling point, right? People like things that make them feel special.

[bluejaybill]

It's a selling point, right? People like things that make them feel special.

Not sure what aspect of my post you are referring to here- old amps, old amp parts, tweed Deluxes???

[Stringswinger]

I've been surprised that the old Fenders command very high prices, while the old Ampegs cost far less than a new tube amp of comparable quality.

The Jet, Rocket, Reverberocket and Gemini amps are all great. The mid-60s jazz players, in my part of Brooklyn, were mostly Ampeg players, usually the Jet, with a JBL speaker. Great sounding amps and, as I recall, cheaper than the Fenders.

When I started playing jazz guitar in the early 70's, the Twin Reverb was king. I got one with JBL speakers and my back hasn't been the same since.

Then Joe Pass, Herb Ellis, Jim Hall and George Benson started using Polytones and I got one of those (I wonder if Tommy Gumina, the founder of Polytone received death threats from Chiropractors? )

Old Princeton and Deluxe amps were cheap and Twins were still the go to tube amps until a major change happened. The venues started having a house PA system. Now you did not have to lug a Twin and could show up with a Princeton or Deluxe to do the gig. All of a sudden, the prices of old Twins and Supers fell and Princeton and Deluxe prices skyrocketed. Fender responded by re-issuing the Princeton and Deluxe, albeit with PCB board construction and some cheap Asian made components. I have owned the reissues and some originals and can say that they do not sound alike (and I am not saying that the reissues sound bad, simply that they sound different).

Polytone is long gone, but that market is now being handled by Mambo, Henriksen and there are Asian made amps galore that deliver a clean solid state sound. There are boutique tube amp makers that will recreate the classic handwired tube amps at silk stocking trade prices.

We now have computers inside amp cabinets that mimic to some degree tube amp sounds or your favorite solid state amps if you prefer.

If a tube amp is the preference and weight is a deal killer, there are hybrids that are easy on the back.

Old tube amps can be a money pit, so IMO, unless it is a small Fender (Princeton, Deluxe etc.) it may be good money after bad owning a vintage tube amp.

For not very much money, a Blues Junior can be had that will deliver good tube amp tone and reasonable weight. For a bit more money a Princeton reissue or Deluxe reissue can be had. All three of those amps can benefit from mods and upgrades, so the best deal might be to find a used example where a prior owner has spent the dough and you get a great example for a great price.

Like archtop guitars, I think the choices today are bigger than ever before. There are so many considerations. Tone (that is always personal taste), price, reliability and availability.

For resale, repairability, weight and tone (my preference), I would go with a small Fender tube amp. (I have a vintage Princeton in my arsenal).

[Tal_175]

I think you definitely pay a Fender fee.... there's a few great amps for that price range. If I was looking for a $2k-ish handwired 15-watt(wish) Fender BF style amp, I would look into Milkman, Cornell, Morgan etc.

There is Fender fee but there is also the boutique brand fee. Do these boutique amps sound better than custom shop hand wired Fenders that they are clones of ? They certainly aren't cheaper. But most importantly, they are a lot harder to sell in the used market than a genuine Fender.
Most of them come with "upgrades" but a handwired amp is easy to customize in a reversible way so that's not a big appeal.

[pilotony]

I've been surprised that the old Fenders command very high prices, while the old Ampegs cost far less than a new tube amp of comparable quality.

The Jet, Rocket, Reverberocket and Gemini amps are all great. The mid-60s jazz players, in my part of Brooklyn, were mostly Ampeg players, usually the Jet, with a JBL speaker. Great sounding amps and, as I recall, cheaper than the Fenders.

I was raised in the Gravesend section of Brooklyn. Played in teen-age rock bands and worked in a music store. Most of the guitar players I saw--rock or jazz--used Ampegs which were widely available. Very few players used Fenders. I was one exception with a blackface Twin I purchased new in May, 1964 for $240.

Tony D.

[rpjazzguitar]

I was raised in the Gravesend section of Brooklyn. Played in teen-age rock bands and worked in a music store. Most of the guitar players I saw--rock or jazz--used Ampegs which were widely available. Very few players used Fenders. I was one exception with a blackface Twin I purchased new in May, 1964 for $240.

Tony D.

I was raised in what now seems to be called "Madison" (and attended Madison HS) -- and studied with Sid Margolis on Kings Highway at E 19th St. The young jazz players there used Ampeg. I knew one guy who had a small Fender amp and a Les Paul gold top, the only example of either I can recall. Other people I knew, rock or jazz, had Ampeg. The jazz guys liked the Jet, the rock guys liked the Gemini models. The jazz guys had L5s and wanted D'Angelicos. The rock guys, mid 60s, I recall often played the 335.

[Stringswinger]

I was raised in what now seems to be called "Madison" (and attended Madison HS) -- and studied with Sid Margolis on Kings Highway at E 19th St. The young jazz players there used Ampeg. I knew one guy who had a small Fender amp and a Les Paul gold top, the only example of either I can recall. Other people I knew, rock or jazz, had Ampeg. The jazz guys liked the Jet, the rock guys liked the Gemini models. The jazz guys had L5s and wanted D'Angelicos. The rock guys, mid 60s, I recall often played the 335.

That is because at that time Wes played an L-5 and Clapton played a 335. Guitar players of every genre want to play the instrument of their heroes. That certainly includes me.

[rpjazzguitar]

That is because at that time Wes played an L-5 and Clapton played a 335. Guitar players of every genre want to play the instrument of their heroes. That certainly includes me.

I recall the younger guitar teachers at Sid's studio speaking of two guitarists with some awe, Wes and Chuck Wayne. Chuck played a D'Angelico. The only guitarist I can recall Sid mentioning with a sense of wonder was Van Eps.

Even before I'd heard of Clapton, I recall that the 335 shape was popular, with some guys I knew playing the Epiphone Casino. I think it was because of the reduced feedback.

[Greentone]

When I was a boy, there were basically four kind of guitars that were played by the good guitar players in Southern California (where I lived). I am talking about the late-50s through mid-60s, here.

The really good players had (1) Gibsons--pretty even split between the ES-335 and the L-5/ES-175 archtop crowds. (2) The Fender folks--pretty even split between the Jazzmaster and the Telecaster players among the serious guitarists. (3) The Rickenbacker crowd. These players were some of the best players in Southern California. (4) All other electric guitars--including Epiphone, D'Angelico, Gretsch, etc.

The common denominator--and this is because it was the West Coast--is that everybody played into either a tweed Fender amp or a blonde or black Tolex covered Fender amp. Pros, Twins, Deluxes mainly. I didn't see an Ampeg until I moved to the East Coast in '67. Then, it was mainly Ampegs plus Twin and Super Reverbs. The rock guys used Kustom, Marshall, and Vox, but it was chiefly Ampeg and Fender.

Essentially nobody played a Stratocaster...until Hendrix came along...then, BOOM!