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Hey folks! Hope everyone here has been safe and sane during these crazy days.
I wanted to hopefully get some opinions and thoughts from people who have some experience in having custom guitars made for them. I’ve found myself in an odd situation with a luthier...
a little over a year ago I made an order for a guitar. A big part of why I decided to go down the custom road was to have a neck made just the way I wanted. Over the course of the last year the communication has been spotty, and once COVID hit it became pretty much non existent. I sent an email back in late March with some thoughts on what I use now and what I like and think I want, hoping to get some feedback from the master. Unfortunately months went by and they never got back to me. After reaching out multiple times and getting no response, or a “give me a few days and I’ll get back to you” and then not hearing back, I finally got an email today saying that the neck was finished, and the specs don’t sound like what I had in mind. Has anyone ever experienced this? I’ve never gone through this process before, and was certainly expecting a more collaborative experience to get exactly the neck I was looking for, but maybe that was idealistic? I also get that things have been strained because of COVID, financially and mentally, but there’s a lot of money changing hands and I’m not a wealthy collector who can just look for another one if it’s not just right. Please share your thoughts, I’m kind of at a loss!
(Sorry this turned into such a long post)Last edited by BopGun29; 08-22-2020 at 03:07 PM.
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08-22-2020 01:52 PM
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Some guitar builders are better than others in almost any area. It sounds like you got one that isn't so good at communication. I don't know what else (s)he might not be good at. About all I know to do is to research the builder thoroughly before ordering. It took more than a year just to make the neck? That is not encouraging.
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Obviously names will be kept out of this, but I’ll say it’s a builder everyone on here would know, and has glowing customer service reviews. The year long wait is because he is very busy and does most of the work himself.
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Bad communication and "wrong" product specs?? Not good. Why not call the person out as a warning to us all?
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I had written specs from the luthier before sending the down payment.
These cost too much to depend on someone's memory or a word of mouth agreement.
No specs? No checks!
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Originally Posted by BopGun29
I hope you issue can be resolved to your satisfaction. Good luck! 
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The part that's confusing me is, you said you made the order a little over a year ago. But sent your thoughts about the neck in last March. That means at least 8 months after you sent the order. Why did you wait for that long to send the specs? Originally Posted by BopGun29
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The maker works by himself and is very busy, so construction doesn’t start until about six months after initially placing an order. He had asked me about my thoughts on the neck, I sent him some thoughts and questions and long story short he never replied before finishing the neck Originally Posted by Tal_175
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If what you describe in OP is complete and accurate, then he must be a jerk unless he is willing to make amends. Your description leaves no room for another interpretation than him being extremely unreasonable. He asked you to send the specs and you did in a timely manner but he ignored your specs and built the neck to some other standard spec. Originally Posted by BopGun29
Now does he recognize that he must have overlooked/forgotten about the email he asked you to send by mistake and it's his contractual duty to build you another neck to your specs? If not, you might be able to take him to small claims court and get your money back. But again that's of course unless his account of the exchange between you and him differ from yours in some important ways and he can prove it.Last edited by Tal_175; 08-22-2020 at 09:38 PM.
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I’m really wracking my brain, but I just don’t see how things could have been misconstrued. I said I have a 335 that I love, with a thin early 60s profile, but that I had recently played an Ibanez with a much wider neck that felt way more comfortable to me especially in the upper register and made me realize how cramped some things feel on the Gibson. I asked if he had a width that he liked in general or used frequently and even after multiple emails reaching out asking for his thoughts on what I had said I never got a reply directly on those topics, only “I’m very busy give me a few days to reply”, and that basically has continued until today when he told me the neck is done and he made it the same width as my 335.... Originally Posted by Tal_175
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I can totally appreciate spreading worthwhile info if this guy really screws me, but definitely want to wait until I get his side of the story. Originally Posted by marcwhy
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Sounds like he was very busy and perhaps disorganized, he forgot about your communication or may be confused you with another customer. Everyone can make mistakes but based on what you described, he should own the mistake and give you the option for a discount or building another neck to your specs. Again it seems completely unreasonable for him to do otherwise. Let us know when you hear back from him. Originally Posted by BopGun29
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I'm sorry your project has seemingly gone awry. I'd give the luthier and see if you can straighten this out. If you're not going to get what you want you might consider cancelling the order. You'll probably lose your deposit, but that might be better than getting a guitar you don't want.
My only experience with a luthier was with Steve Holst. He was great to work with and communication was excellent. There was no confusion about what I wanted. He had me fill out a spreadsheet with about 50 line items for things like body dimensions,wood type, binding, sound hole shape, neck dimensions, radius and scale, headstock shape, neck wood fingerboard wood, pickguard style, tailpiece, bridge, pickup controls, color and more. He sent pictures of several pieces of wood with different grains. He sent drawings of F-holes. We traded dozens of emails and talked on the phone several times.There were no surprises, and I think that's how these things should go. Steve told me at the outset that it was super important to him that I get just what I want and he lived up to that credo.
Not all luthiers actually do custom guitars. Many of them offer specific models with some variations. Maybe that describes your guy. In any case I hope you get things straightened out. These guitars involve a lot of money and a lot of waiting. You should get something you'll be happy with. Good luck.
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I would not get a guitar I'm not happy with, certainly one with a wrong neck. You should have everything spec'd out in detail, written down, before committing when commissioning a guitar, because things like that do happen. I hope you come to an agreable resolution.
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A thin neck cannot be reshaped into a fatter wider neck. Sometimes, people read half of what you say. Sigh! I am really sorry to read that.
A custom neck profile is one of the very major reasons players order a custom guitar. If you are a player you want the neck to feel right. I have known players to rid themselves of a perfectly sounding guitar because the neck was uncomfortable.
You should accept no compromises. A responsible luthier will make it right immediately. I won't accept a re-neck either if it has already been glued into the body.
Funny thing is this: many players like a thin profile 60s 335 neck so the luthier should have no problem selling it to somebody else. Lots of luthiers build on spec(ulation) guitars for sale.
As a no name player, my experience is some luthiers do not give you their best but charge you the same price anyway. My one experience with a custom ordered €10 000 classical guitar turned out to be a letdown. It is better to go to a dealer like GSI to pick one out yourself where you can see it and touch it before putting your money down. The guy who took my money could not even be bothered to write back to ask me how I liked it. I emailed him that I received it safely (he caused me to jump through hoops with only half the required documentation and the nagging fear that it might be seized by Customs) and he never acknowledged my email. Sheesh! A waste of €10000 that I saved a very long time for...
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Customer involvement with the design and first hand communication with the builder is part of the custom order experience and the price tag. It shouldn't be this stressful. Unless the builder is known to be a diva. Alexander Dumble apparently just sends you your check back if you so much as ask him about the estimated delivery date. Mind you a Dumble amp order is not meant to be a "customized" design. It's one of the amps in his standard product line built to order. So it's a different thing.
Somewhere in this video Ken Parker says D'Angelico said something along the lines of 4 out of 5 guitars he built were dogs. Only 1 in 5 came out right. I might be slightly misquoting it but it's in the video. So nevermind the original owners, people still pay astronomical prices for these guitars in the used market. Hopefully modern builders have higher standards.
Last edited by Tal_175; 08-23-2020 at 04:05 PM.
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Next time I suggest you simply provide the builder with a couple of templates for gauging neck shape and a few measurements.
Be sure to lay your ground work before you start your build. Good communication is the key here. Good luck on the rest of the project.
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For what it is worth. I have commissioned many custom instruments (archtops, electrics, flattops, gypsies and nylon strings) from a wide variety of luthiers. I have NEVER experienced what you describe. I have commissioned two instruments that were made during this pandemic period as well. No issues whatsoever. Always clear, timely communication throughout the process.
My first custom commissioned guitar dates back about 20-years ago (it was an archtop for my 40th birthday!) and I have commissioned many custom guitars at this point. As I have gained more and more experience with the process of commissioning instruments or with working on repeat commissions with particular luthier after you are familiar with their methods, my current “approach” is quite different then it was two decades ago.
There are basically four stages to commissioning a guitar: Selection, Planning, Execution and Ownership.
Selection:
- Deciding on the type of guitar I want
- Selecting a luthier for a project
- Understanding their business terms, project duration and projected delivery timing
- Understanding their pricing structure
Planning:
- Communicating about playing style/goals/preferences/dislikes
- Understanding preferred method/cadence of communication & key decision points
- Selecting player specs (i.e. scale length, nut width, string spacing)
- Selecting woods based on luthier’s recommendations
- Selecting ergonomic and aesthetic features together
Execution:
- Status check-ins, updates, input on contemporaneous decisions
- Discussing setup preferences
- Discussing case options
- Discussing shipping options/methods
Ownership:
- Insuring the instrument
- Providing feedback (short and long-term)
Originally Posted by BopGun29
Last edited by iim7V7IM7; 08-23-2020 at 10:29 AM.
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Or just have Matt build you one. Originally Posted by Matt Cushman
Next time I suggest you simply provide the builder with a couple of templates for gauging neck shape and a few measurements. Be sure to lay your ground work before you start your build. Good communication is the key here. Good luck on the rest of the project.
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Next time top builders in my book here in the states : Campellone, Cushman, Holst. All easy on the wallet too. LOL with your build.
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I am generally an easy guy to please. I try to get out of the luthier's way. Pick my set of wood, if given the choice or allow the luthier to pick the set for me, giving him some brushstrokes about what I prefer. Of the neck profile, I start off with a range of neck depths under the 1st and 10th, and always a C profile. Yeah, 1959 Gibson C, 0.865" to 0.875" under the 1st; 0.995" to 1.005" under the 10th, erring on chunky. I would say that my American luthier got them right.
Not stumping up for American luthiers but the ones of whom I have asked about custom guitars mainly made things pretty straightforward and simple. Maybe it is a language thing. Maybe it is a cultural thing. The English-as-their-first-language-maybe-only-language speaking luthiers are the easiest ones to deal with. Thus far, Americans, English, Australian. Henceforth, I think I am going to stick with whom I know. The lugubrious luthier languishes in a lowland of milkmaids and dykes.
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In my experience there are two types of luthiers: those that build you a traditional design customized to your specs, and those who build a unique instrument you can’t get anywhere else.
For example, if a luthier specializes in period accurate 1930’s Epiphone Deluxe you probably have made a mistake if you want a Bigsby and triple humbuckers put on it. Or, if the neck is made out of solid aluminum or some weird composite construction, perhaps they can’t customize it for you.
Most luthiers, however, are selling themselves as alternatives to Fender’s Custom Shop willing to make EXACTLY the guitar you want. In that case I think it is fair to demand the neck you want.
Necks are not too difficult to make. A luthier should be willing to remake it to your specs. Or, if they believe they have made you the right neck, ship the neck to you so you can see. Attaching a neck to a body and finishing it comes fairly late in the process, so unless the guitar is within days of shipping there should be no reason not to simply make it right for you.
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