What should I expect by raising this pickup?

[garybaldy]

Any opinions welcome thanks.

[citizenk74]

Slightly more output, but not necessarily better tone. Perhaps you might begin by lowering the bridge a tad, as that action looks to be on the high side, IMO. Good luck!

[sgosnell]

Mostly, you'll get more holes in the side of the neck. That's the only way I can see that it could be raised. Like the citizen said, a little more output. You'll probably need to fill the holes already there, then redrill, and that's not a simple operation.

[garybaldy]

Slightly more output, but not necessarily better tone. Perhaps you might begin by lowering the bridge a tad, as that action looks to be on the high side, IMO. Good luck!

Thanks. I'm quite happy with the action. It's 1/16" both Es at 20th fret - is that considered high? The neck is as good as dead straight. The action could go down a tad but it's OK should you wish to do rhythm a la Django. The pickup is a little quiet and I've been reading an old thread about a Peerless Monarch which shows it's pickup much higher with the top edge of the bracket meeting the bottom edge of the binding - which is something I could do. Admittedly the Monarch has a deeper pickup but that's another issue. Cheers

[garybaldy]

Mostly, you'll get more holes in the side of the neck. That's the only way I can see that it could be raised. Like the citizen said, a little more output. You'll probably need to fill the holes already there, then redrill, and that's not a simple operation.

Thanks. Yes, I realise it's a fiddly job plus the bracket rebate would have to be taken higher. I think the old screw holes would still just be covered by the bracket but there would be a bit of black touching up to any bare timber showing.
BTW how does one drill those side pilot holes? Would a drill chuck be too big to 'go in' square? Or a very long drill bit? - not seen them in the UK.
Cheers

[icr]

I think pickup height has a huge effect on tone and playability. You should find the optimum spot. You might re-attach it with two sided tape before permanently altering it. If that pickup does not have individual adjustable pole-pieces, the closer to the whole pickup is to the strings, the worse the string-to-string balance will be. So, as they say, "Listen twice--cut once"
It may be already in the best spot, but no way to know without listening to it in different positions.

[garybaldy]

It was my current project - changing wiring harness, pickguard and experimenting with the pickup and may be swapping it.
I'm now sorting a new purchase that needs heavier strings, nut mods and bridge mods so I can actually play it! I want to get that sorted first. Cheers.

[rolijen]

This job might be a great application for a KA 12-pole PAF Neck mounted humbucker. Action looks fine. Press strings down at the last fret and measure the distance between the bottom of the low E string and the top of the pickup. A good starting point is 3/32”. For the high E, a good starting point is 2/32” (1/16”). If your pickup is significantly lower than that it will have weaker output, and sound more acoustic. A fatter amplified tone will be happening at the distance I listed. Also shown here: Home - EZ Guitar Tech

[sgosnell]

The issue with the holes is that when you raise the bracket and drill new holes, the new holes will probably overlap the current ones, making a big oval hole which won't hold the screws. The only way I know of to prevent that is to fill the current holes with solid wood, smooth the ends, and then redrill. For drilling those holes, you need something like a finger drill, not a power drill. The hole should be small and not deep, definitely done by hand.

[rolijen]

Great advice—you’ll almost certainly need to fill the screw holes. Following sgosnell’s instructions, it’s not difficult to enlarge the existing screw holes enough to remove the threads and use hardwood dowel material of the same diameter as the drill.

Remove the pickguard, protect the top of the guitar (use painters tape to secure a soft cloth to cover the guitar while leaving the neck extension exposed), drill, glue, insert dowell of appropriate length, cut flush if needed.

I’ve done this many times to plug pickup bracket holes, tuner mounting screw holes, tailpiece mounting holes, etc. it’s not hard. You can drop stain (or I’ve even used markers) to match the surrounding wood. Just keep in mind that the exposed end of the dowell will show end grain which will absorb stain. So be careful and start with a lighter color and work your way to a match. If you start too dark, it’ll be more noticeable. You should be fine as that stain on your guitar neck extension looks pretty dark already.

Good luck!

[garybaldy]

This job might be a great application for a KA 12-pole PAF Neck mounted humbucker. Action looks fine. Press strings down at the last fret and measure the distance between the bottom of the low E string and the top of the pickup. A good starting point is 3/32”. For the high E, a good starting point is 2/32” (1/16”). If your pickup is significantly lower than that it will have weaker output, and sound more acoustic. A fatter amplified tone will be happening at the distance I listed. Also shown here: Home - EZ Guitar Tech

Thanks rolijen. I have , sometime ago, communicated with Aaron Armstrong in the UK regarding the 12 pole but never taken the plunge! I was on the verge of routing for a Gibson TTop that I have and then if that didn't work out go for the set KA. A lot of people said I shouldn't do the surgery and I now think they were right!
Thanks for your advice on the pup height. I shall persevere with the Ibanez pùp that's on it for now. It didn't cost a lot and is so much better than the Atilla Zoller that the guitar came with. Cheers.

[Doctor Jeff]

I second try it out with tape first, and you will probably need to fill the holes if you do move it.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm not sure moving it 1/16" up is going to make a huge difference in tone. Aren't these relatively low output to begin with?

Anyway, what do I know. Try it out and let us know.

[JaxJaxon]

Generaly if you raise a pickup the note tones become more clear less muddy. with the picture you show there is too much of a reflrcted image to tell how close the pickup is to the body. But the more away from the body it is the better acoustic sound you will get from the guitar.

[pingu]

is there concensus on this
you say
higher = more clear less muddy

but you also say
lower= Better acoustic sound

I'm confused now !

(Cos i always thought that
higher= less clear more mud )

[garybaldy]

From what I've read and if I understand correctly a pickup becomes more muddy if you raise it.
The bottom of the pickup is 1/8" from the guitar top but again from what I've read as long it has a thou' clearance it won't affect the acoustic sound. Could be wrong.

[garybaldy]

This job might be a great application for a KA 12-pole PAF Neck mounted humbucker. Action looks fine. Press strings down at the last fret and measure the distance between the bottom of the low E string and the top of the pickup. A good starting point is 3/32”. For the high E, a good starting point is 2/32” (1/16”). If your pickup is significantly lower than that it will have weaker output, and sound more acoustic. A fatter amplified tone will be happening at the distance I listed. Also shown here: Home - EZ Guitar Tech

The closest I can get with that pickup using the bracket (and a bit of wood work) would be 3/32" on both treble and bass side.
I currently have 11/64" treble and 12/64" bass. So would raising it what amounts to 5/64" (say 1/16") have much of an effect?
Screw poles would give more flexibility.
I have seen a 'tray' type bracket somewhere here which is attached to the end of the fretboard rather than the sides and the pickup sits in the tray secured by grub screws. Not sure if it's commercially available.
Perhaps I'll do away with the bracket and, like others, use blue tack!!

[garybaldy]

I second try it out with tape first, and you will probably need to fill the holes if you do move it.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm not sure moving it 1/16" up is going to make a huge difference in tone. Aren't these relatively low output to begin with?

Anyway, what do I know. Try it out and let us know.

1/16" - yes you have a point there. Thanks.

[starjasmine]

Here's a goofy idea - no idea whether it would work. But... what about creating a new bracket to mount in the old holes, and attaching the PUP to the new bracket in some way? It might be a bit clunkier looking than what you have going on now, but you wouldn't be doing any damage to the stock configuration of the guitar. Uh, assuming that the floater you have is stock; IDK whether that's the case.

[neatomic]

is there concensus on this
you say
higher = more clear less muddy

but you also say
lower= Better acoustic sound

I'm confused now !

(Cos i always thought that
higher= less clear more mud )

i get you, but no it's not a contradiction...the closer the pickup gets to the strings the more magnetic interaction...hence volume increases...and with more definition between individual strings...i.e. certain frequencies will stand out more...usually mids and high mids....so may be more difficult to dial in overall pup tone


having the pups lowered gives more acoustic sound...flattens the frequency response...gets more woody tone..bass is warm but not punchy...trebles more airy

another factor is, you don't want pickup magnets too close to strings as they can literally pull the strings out of tune...commonly called strat-itis


it's a fine art!!!...experimentation is the only answer!!

also type of string matters hugely...stainless steel is way different than pure nickel

cheers

[neatomic]

ps-

you can also bend the brackets a bit (carefully) to raise floater...or loosen mounting screws and put a little shim under pickup to see if it makes an audible difference for you

cheers

[sgosnell]

One way to get the pickup closer to the strings would be to mount it crooked - with the outboard edge closest to the bridge higher than the other side, screw in the end of the bracket closer to the body than the screw closest to the end of the neck. I'm not recommending it, because it might look goofy and not sound ideal, but it's one way. This is why I don't like neck-mounted pickups with no polepiece adjustment. You get what you get, whether you like it or not. With a DeArmond Rhythm Chief you have adjustment possibilities, with or without polepieces, and IMO better sound. But you have what you have.

[rolijen]

A small decrease in distance from pickup to strings can make a big difference. I like the idea of experimenting by removing the screws and raising the pickup (maybe shove a small piece of felt or foam between the pickup and the body to elevate the pickup.

Based on your current measurements, moving up to 6/64” from your current 12/64” is not a small change—it’s a 50% decrease in the gap. Should make a noticeable difference. Can’t say it will be better, but it will be different and you can try it out before committing to permanent changes.

My bet is it will sound better.

[garybaldy]

Here's a goofy idea - no idea whether it would work. But... what about creating a new bracket to mount in the old holes, and attaching the PUP to the new bracket in some way? It might be a bit clunkier looking than what you have going on now, but you wouldn't be doing any damage to the stock configuration of the guitar. Uh, assuming that the floater you have is stock; IDK whether that's the case.

I had thought of that goofy idea myself but the tray thing I mentioned earlier is probably more do - able. The floater is not stock but a couple of the original screw holes matched and that was all that was needed. Cheers.