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Ok. I know a few of you are hot and heavy for Guild guitars. One thing I have wondered: Is there a timeline vs quality for Guild archtops?
We all know of the dark days of fender/CBS Gibson/Norlin Gretsch/Baldwin
Martin on the other hand never really had an black period.
How does Guild fare compared to these others.
Thanks
Drew
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01-25-2010 01:38 PM
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Careful, you might be waving a red flag at a bull there! I understand the Gibson archtop shop, at any rate, was independent from what was happening in management and turned out good stuff during the Norlin days.
Originally Posted by SamBooka
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Though never a Norlin like period, Martin had problems with bridges in the 60's due to the jigs they had been using forever eroding. They also had that massive fire in the early 70's, which wiped out their stock of aged woods, so they were forced to use greener woods.
Guild was bought out by Fender in the mid 90's (IIRC) with a move to Cali, and they got merged somewhat with Tacoma when Fender bought Tacoma out. I know (from the hype when it happened) that Fender moved them to CT a couple of years ago, and their quality control supposedly improved. But they have been made in Japan, Korea, and different parts of the US, depending on the year.
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Archtop wise, I think their stuff is good up to when Fender bought them out. After that I think it may have suffered until they brought Bob Benedetto to revamp the line. Since then I couldn't comment.
I almost bought a used x-500 back in '78 but opted for a used blonde ES-175 as it was less money. ($400, imagine...cheap).
I always liked the artist award model.
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I'd also wonder about Martin - their new guitars aren't impressive, IMO. Against my advice, my brother bought a D-28 (I lobbied for a Taylor) and is now unhappy with the guitar, only a year later. I've just owned two, a modern one which is useful only for slide and a marvelous 000-18 from the thirties that I let get away. From about 1980 on, I've preferred J-45 Gibsons to just about anything Martin made in the same period, and the Gibsons were about 1/2 or 1/3 price that Martin was charging at the time. I keep looking at the new "Keb Mo" Gibson, it's about the same size as the old 000-18, it's tempting me ...
So far as I know, quality was never an issue for Guild so long as they were made in Rhode Island. I have a later model from that era and it's comparable to my Gibson plywood archtops that cost more and superior to Gibsons that were competitively priced.
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Martin have been pretty good at not making big changes. The issue with the bridges is actually typical of this. A minor issue. Look at the headstocks of Martins from the late 60s early 70s.. they are much more rounded. This is because the headstock templates were 20-30 years old and were actually worn down!! They waited how long before installing trussrods?
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Hi Drew. Fan here. Originally Posted by SamBooka
There is some contention amongst the Guild aficionados about this subject. You can do a search on this subject with this Guild forum: • Index page
There are those die hard Guild colletcors that feel when Fender bought Guild in the mid 1990's that there was a corruption of sorts with the quality of their work. However, if you read what the CEO of Fender said during the aquisition:
"Fender, under the personal direction of CEO Bill Schultz, has wholeheartedly committed its resources to the survival and prosperity of the Guild vision of tradition, innovation and value. This commitment means doing all the things that made Guild great in the first place: investing in the highest-quality craftsmen and equipment, and establishing close ties with the finest guitar players."
Credit source:
http://westerlyguildguitars.com/articles/guildstory.htm
And in my opinion it was true. My X-150 and X-700 were built in 1997 and 1996, respectively - the workmanship is first rate. My X-170 was built in early 2000 and has impecable workmanship - the best I have seen in any guitar manufacture. I also have a 2002 Corona built X-500 (where Fender ultimately moved the archtop manufacturing in late 2000). It too has high craftmanship. And this move conjured rumors/myths that the build quality suffered whilst in Corona CA. This was simply not true. I believe that the people involved in crafting guitars in the US, especially those with a tradition in good craftmanship, just won't make inferior quality instruments.
Ultimatley, Fender dropped the production archtop line on or about 2005. There are those that speculate this was a marketing decision based on aquiring Gretch and not wanting to compete against itself - not sure. They did have a Benedetto/Guild agreement making the X-700 and Artists Awards on or about 1999. And there is the Nashville custom Guild shop (taken on 2001):
FRETS.COM Field Trip
Yet, I find no further reference if this building continues,the Benedetto line either. Anyone knows more about the custom series of Guilds?
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Thanks X!
Really... my question gets to this. How far back do you have to go to get a good guild (or what are the years to avoid)?
I know there is a decent Guild book on Amazon but dont know how much they go into the subject.
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I've been lurking in the forum that X-500 posted above for a month or so. I'm sure that you can easily get an answer to your question there.
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At the risk of sounding like a chearleader for Guild, I would say 2005 Originally Posted by SamBooka
Seriously, I have not read one account of a "bad" year throughout Guild's history and or locations: New York, Hoboken, Westerly or Corona. Now, that doesn't mean that there might have been a few quality control issues that fell through the cracks. Or specific issues such as types of finish and or acesseories that didn't stand the test of time, in particular, with the vintage specimens. There are of course folks that may have had something happened that would elicit an opinionated/biased issue with a particular Guild model (bad day or year, bad experience with a seller, etc). But I venture that these blokes can be found with all other guitars and or anything sold under the sun!
You might want to join the group at Letstalkguild.com (we don't bite
)and ask this question. It is after all a very legitimate question and you'll have a more target audience too.
This being said, as you can see, I am quite biased about Guilds!
The author's name is Hans Moust and is a regular contributor to the forum at Lets Talk Guild.com Here's his website: Originally Posted by SamBooka
Guitars Galore
Good Luck Drew and Happy Hunting!
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I believe they are being built well now. After writing my post and reading a few others, I checked around the net a bit. I was not off on my recollection (always a hit or miss prospect), and here is a quote on recent move with Guild from Wiki.
"Most recently, Guild has moved into a newly acquired facility in New Hartford, CT in 2008, where hand-production of the top-end Guilds has significantly reclaimed the reputation of the company."
I would say that recent models, probably still bear some of Benedetto's fingerprints, and are of fine quality. I would love to test that theory out, but alas, no one around here carries them.
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Thanks guys. I had actually played a few of the flat tops. They seemed ok but they dont jump out at me (but then neither do gibson flattops either, just a matter of taste).
Of course regardless of the build quality of the new guitars.. they arent archtops :/
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I am, like X-500, a definite Guild fan. I currently have two archtops (Artist Award and X-170), two six string flattops (F-50 and D-50), a Mark V classical and an F-212 (that I've had since it was just a pup in 1965). I have never met one I didn't like, but my newest one is the D-50 from 1991 so I can't comment on any of the post-Westerly builds. I think in general they are good value for the money, and that their archtops can compete with anybody's with the probable exception of some of the master luthier products that sell for far more than any production model. I have not heard of a down period in their production, and as to the poster who said that some were made in Korea or Japan, I think the only Asian models are the GAD models from China, all flattops.
Brad
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Hi Brad, Originally Posted by brad4d8
There were, or are, DeArmonds that were distributed by Guild when in Corona, CA (owned by Fender). DeArmondGuitars
Some of the members from the Guild forum stated that there were DeArmonds that have the Guild emblem on the TRC (truss rod cover) and others that have "Crafted in Korea" stamped on the back of the headstock. And then I found this quote in the DeArmond site:
"Guild staff travelled to Korea to select the right builder who could faithfully reproduce the old Guild body designs that had been chosen as the basis for the DeArmond guitar line. Tooling was designed and built specially for these guitars and was not selected off the cookie-cutter shelf that serves so often as the source of imported designs."
Credit Source: Dearmond® Support
Yet, to the point of DeArmonds that have Guild on the TRC, some appeared at the Guild custom shop in Nashville (at least, I saw the photos taken by Frank Ford when he visisted the shop posted at his website; Frets.com). I surmise from this that there was a limited run of American made DeArmonds ...
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Yes, but they still had DeArmond on the headstock, correct? Sort of like MOK Epiphone by Gibson. Originally Posted by X-500
Brad
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Correct. Which leads me to wonder why they just didn't use the Guild emblem on their headstock, but rather chose to use the name of a pioneer in pickup design? (which they bought out of course) Hmm ... Originally Posted by brad4d8
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I don't know a whole lot about the DeArmond guitars. Were they only produced under Fender? As to using the name, there was a long relationship between Guild and DeArmond, judging by the fact that they used DeArmond pickups on some of their archtops. My AA has a DeArmond Rhythm Chief, for example. I do know that 8-10 years ago (when I could only dream about affording an Artist Award) I was seriously considering a DeArmond Starfire as a companion for my X-170 because I had read and heard good things about them as far as Asian guitars go. Now, I have a Gold Guldsby to put on it, and will be getting a different bridge to accommodate the Guildsby's motion. Personally, I wish Fender had revived the Madeira name for the made in China models rather than using Guild GAD, but I'm just a schmuck who plays them, not sells. Originally Posted by X-500
Brad
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