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I don't know which particular kind of guitar you're talking about, but I keep it like that:
Maple fretboards were introduced by Leo Fender in the 50s, so for Fender solidbody guitars, this is the historically correct option. Maple fretboards, however, were considered to be a stilistic fauxpas by some guitar builders and players, so in the 60s, Fender introduced rosewood fretboards. The maple fretboard was a thing of simplicity: It's actually not a fretboard, but one piece of maple with frets on it. Therefore the "skunkstripe", they had to insert the trussrod from the back of the neck. The 60s Fenders typically don't have a skunkstripe.
As for all other guitars, classical spanish, Gibsons, Martins, they always used Rosewood, and I don't know of any model of these with a maple fretboard. So a classical instrument builder approach is definitely a rosewood/ebony fretboard.
As mentioned before the Fender maple fretboards aren't really fretboards, but pieces of maple with frets on it.
I also own a Godin with richlite fretboard, which is a articfial rosewood, basically. It seems to be more durable and less sensitive, especially regarding humidity and temperature. However, it looks kind of artificial, so that's a little downside... Oh, and of course it's not affected by any wood regulations (CITES and stuff).
QUESTION: How do you guys handle the effect of wood on tone? I'm asking this especially for solid body guitars (for acoustics it obviously matters).
You can read a lot about people saying rosewood/maple strats sound differently, but I am sure they can't say that with there eyes closed. But I am generally not a big believer here. I also don't hear a difference, wether Ash/Elder is used on a strat.
And once I wanted to sell a strat, and the guy didn't take it, because it had no one-piece-body (2piece). He said he would hear that
Do you hear a difference with these things or is it all just voodoo?
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05-08-2020 06:29 AM
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If you compare two identical spec strat's from the same maker, they won't sound the same. Everybody can easily hear that. Metal parts, I presume, are a lot more consistent across the units than the wood. That proves that wood makes a difference in tone. Even the different cuts from the same species. It's small, usually different shades of good but it's there. I don't know why there is a debate around that.
I got a rosewood bridge base recently and replaced ebony base of my ES175. The difference was huge. It was meant to be a purely cosmetic change. I was very surprised by it. I didn't think I could hear a difference, so it's not confirmation bias. Fretboard material is like the bridge base, just the other end of the strings. It makes a difference, no doubt in my mind. Everything matters. I wish it didn't.Last edited by Tal_175; 05-08-2020 at 07:07 AM.
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@Tal_175:
Okay, but it makes the whole thing more interesting, right?
I guess I just can't (or don't want to) hear all these nuances. I tend to simplify things...
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I'm in the school that believes that the material of solid body guitars makes no difference. Since they are almost all electric, the sound is produced by pickups amplifying the vibration of strings above them. Body material makes no difference.
Originally Posted by django
QUESTION: How do you guys handle the effect of wood on tone? I'm asking this especially for solid body guitars (for acoustics it obviously matters).
You can read a lot about people saying rosewood/maple strats sound differently, but I am sure they can't say that with there eyes closed. But I am generally not a big believer here. I also don't hear a difference, wether Ash/Elder is used on a strat.
And once I wanted to sell a strat, and the guy didn't take it, because it had no one-piece-body (2piece). He said he would hear that
Do you hear a difference with these things or is it all just voodoo?
Case in point: I have a 1994 Fender Stratocaster with an aluminum body. It was one of only 400 made. When I play it, it sounds just like a Stratocaster -- there is no tonal difference between it and one of my wood-bodied Strats.
An article in Vintage Guitar has a collector responding to how one sounds: “Through an amplifier, they sound just as good as any other American Standard Stratocaster or Telecaster. Without an amp, they have a nice, resonant, acoustic quality. The playability is also similar to their wooden counterparts, except aluminums are comfortably lighter."
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That's interesting to me. I have 3 strats, they all sound very noticeably different. My non musician girlfriend likes one of them in particular (it's got a warmer sound). I'm telling this with all honesty, I asked her to pick it out without looking which one I was playing through the amp as I switched guitars. She picked it very easily. This is true. It didn't surprise me because they do sound different. Especially 2 of them. I even swapped the pickups and NECKS, they still preserve the basic characteristics. They all sound like strats of course but still with differences.
It's possible that I happened to have particularly different sounding strats (light alder vs heavy ash). But even in guitar stores, if I play one strat, then another, they don't sound the same to me often.
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While I'm on the topic, I own a KLOS carbon fiber travel guitar. I love it! Due to its reduced size, it sits on the sofa in my living room next to me, where I can pick it up and play whenever I feel the urge. It sounds terrific, too! I bought it when the company offered only rosewood necks, but now they have made an all-carbon fiber guitar, neck included. Had I not already gotten my original, I would have jumped to get a new one!
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All the carbon fiber guitars I have played sounded amazing. Rainsong in particular are really great - killer tone and projection. I used to be an Ovation fan. The Adamas guitars were also really nice. I could never afford one.
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I had a Comins GCS-1 with ebony fingerboard, and it really was very nice
possibly a bit more like maple than rosewood in sound? hard to tell
looked awesome too
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[QUOTE=Hammertone;1031232]Any particular reason?
Mostly cosmetic - doesn't look natural to me. Possible a good thing but I suspect advertising hype involved a lot....the jury is still out.
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One thing to consider is that, in general, ebony weighs more than both maple and rosewood. It could weigh twice as much as maple and a third more than rosewood. I like all three, but my partscasters with ebony fingerboards are pretty stout for neck weight. I wouldn't say that they are neck heavy guitars, but they would feel very different with lighter necks. Just something to think about.
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Fender used one-piece maple necks/fingerboards because the goal was to make a guitar quickly and cheaply from off-the-shelf lumber with semi-skilled labor. Maple is plentiful and cheap, no import problems, and relatively easy to work. It wasn't because maple makes a good neck or fretboard, it was because it was cheap. Same for bodies - cheap and easily available, easy to work, were the goals. Ebony, rosewood, etc feel different from maple because maple has to be finished to prevent it looking like pure crap before it's played more than a week. Maple is softer, and obviously lighter, and it is disfigured by dirt and oils very easily, so you never feel the maple neck, you feel the finish. You see some maple fretboards with the finish worn off, and they look like crap. They also start absorbing moisture, which affects playability. I believe that the preferences between ebony, rosewood, and other hard, oily woods are purely cosmetic, and no one could tell the difference if they couldn't see the fretboard.
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I have 3 guitars with ebony fingerboards - all Ibanez - a 1980 AS200, a 1978 Musician MC400 NT and 2016 Artist 2619 Prestige. Although they are all ebony, the fingerboard on the Musician feels denser and harder under my fingers - like polished slate but without the stoney cold. I have an “cleaner” impression of physical contact compared to the other two guitars. I quite like it, but don’t see it as better or worse - just one of the “different” characteristics of this particular guitar.
If I had to chose a “favourite” fingerboard it would be my 1961 ES-175D - a very dark rosewood with a “warm” feel to it.
The Richlite on my Martins has a feel closer to the ebony on my two other Ibanez guitars.
All this is obviously personal and subjective YMMV.
Ray
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Yeah I guess everybody is tuned into different aspects of the tone. Like a lot of people emphasize the effect of pickups on the tone. I find that a bit overrated. I don't hear big differences between pickups outside of the single coil, humbucker divide. What I hear is quality pickups basically preserve the inherent acoustic sound of the guitar. Even solid bodies. You can always hear the acoustic characteristics of the guitar. Originally Posted by django
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Richlite sounds interesting. Is there a Tele-style guitar available with a Richlite fretboard? Or do any of the usual suspects (USACG, Allparts, Warmoth) sell a Tele neck like that?
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That's the truss rod adjustment wheel on the fancy-pants Fender Elite Tele. Ernie Ball/Music Man have had them for years, Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack
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@Just Fred:
I am basically in the same school, even if this could seem to be oversimplifying.I'm in the school that believes that the material of solid body guitars makes no difference. Since they are almost all electric, the sound is produced by pickups amplifying the vibration of strings above them. Body material makes no difference.
Cool! I never knew they made these! That's a good proof for our point. Fender even built a cardboard strat for the linkin park guitarist, and it sounds like a strat. And it looks extraordinary! We can argue about this guy's playing skill though...Case in point: I have a 1994 Fender Stratocaster with an aluminum body. It was one of only 400 made. When I play it, it sounds just like a Stratocaster -- there is no tonal difference between it and one of my wood-bodied Strats.
LINK:
@Tal_175:
I have to say that I hear a difference in pickups much more than wood, at least for solidbody guitars. Example with strats: I had noiseless pickups, ceramics, and classic alnico 1950s, and they sounded noticeably different. I can't say that for wood, personally.Like a lot of people emphasize the effect of pickups on the tone. I find that a bit overrated. I don't hear big differences between pickups outside of the single coil, humbucker divide. What I hear is quality pickups basically preserve the inherent acoustic sound of the guitar. Even solid bodies. You can always hear the acoustic characteristics of the guitar.
But then again, your experiment with changing necks from rw/maple is a proof for the opposite standpoint.
@BigDaddyLoveHandles:
As far as I know, richlite is a trademark of Godin. But I could be wrong. Godin does build tele/strat style guitars, so there's a good chance to find one there.
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Richlite is a multipurpose product. It's used on knife handles, for example. I know Gibson uses it: Building a Better Fingerboard Originally Posted by django
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Howard Roberts Fusion III has ebony fingerboard.
Specs
Pickups Rhythm: 490-R Alnico magnet HB
Treble: 490-T Alnico magnet HB
Controls Two volume, two tone, 3-way switch
Hardware Gold
Scale/Nut width 24 ¾ / 1.6875"
Fingerboard/Inlay 22 fret Ebony / Dot
Neck shape 1959 Rounded Les Paul
Binding Body / Neck
Bridge/Tailpiece Tune-o-matic / Finger
Materials Laminated Maple Body with
Chromyte Center block, Maple Neck
Finish Cherry, Ebony, Vintage Sunburst
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^^^ As long as we're talking wood, Chromyte appears to be a made-up word. Is it a euphemism for balsa?
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Look in your own backyard. Wenzel Rossmeisl used maple, oak, wenge, pearwood and more for the fretboards of some of his archtop guitars after the war. Even after the wood trade came back in the post-war years, he favoured padauk and used it on the fretboards of many of his archtop guitars, in addition to using rosewood and ebony. Originally Posted by django
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I think I can hear single coil vs humbucker most of the time, although there are guys who can make a Strat sound like a jazz guitar.
Beyond that, I wouldn't swear I could identify anything, wood, strings, bridge, construction, tubes, solid state etc. etc.
Of course, some guitar tones do sound better than others. But, it's the player, the room, the band, the music, etc etc.
And, a lot of the time, I can tell they're not the same, but by the time the band starts playing, and I acclimate to the band's sound, they're all good.
The only issue about which I get finicky is that the upper register of the high E string not be plinky. When it comes to that, I am a full-blown, pedal to the metal, cork sniffer.
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Can the princess feel the pea? Originally Posted by django
There are people who claim to have superhearing that can hear the difference between how many layers of nitro on the body, nitro versus poly versus automotive paint, whether the pickguard is Bakelite or plastic, whether the screws are nickel plated or chromed or plain, whether the guitar was made on a Tuesday, etc. Most or maybe all of it is self-hypnosis.
Obviously I am skeptical. Clearly guitars sound different but pointing to a single difference and saying "that's it" often seems tenuous. Swap pickups on a guitar and change nothing else? Sure, you can point to that. But compare an archtop with a rosewood fingerboard versus and ebony fingerboard and no way- there are just too many other variables.
Some years back Jim Soloway posted a comparison of the same guitar with different necks- one with a maple fingerboard and one with either ebony or rosewood, IIRC. The differences were so subtle as to just be differences in touch while playing.
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Ears are so very different. Every acoustic CF guitar I have played sounded like **** to me. Great playability, mind you, but this terrible plasticky nasal sound. All the resonance of a poker chip. In all fairness, it's been at least ten years since I played a CF acoustic guitar and it's likely that luthiers and builders have learned how to work with the material more effectively. Jim Soloway's Irish-made ones sound good in his clips, electrically especially. And I recall liking a CF Steinberger and a CF-ish Parker through an amp, sounded great and the lightness was wonderful. Originally Posted by lukmanohnz
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Noiseless pickups are pretty much humbuckers so they do sound different from single coils.
Don't stone me but nevermind fretboards, even fretwires sound different. I find that stainless steel wires sound different than regular nickel ones. In fact that's one of the things I really don't like about one of my strats (metallic sound of the stainles steel wires).
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I found this on the topic of fretwires:
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