Solid or laminated semi-acoustic for higher gain settings?

[Hari Seldon]

Hi, new here.

I got a subtle question.

I have an Eastman T185MX (see this thread: )

It's a solid wood thinline and has great, woody "jazz" tones. The pickups I put in are Seth Lovers. It's from 2006.

I don't seem to get the typical 335 tones out of this guitar. It's too fat and gets nasal on the neck pickup when I use higher gain.

I have the feeling that such a resonant solid wood guitar is not the right thing for playing with higher gain.
By "higher gain" I mean a tone like on the 1st album by Larry Carlton, with his mesa boogie, or classic rock like "Comin' home" by Ten Years After or early Clapton etc.
Not real high gain like in metal or modern hard rock.

Can you confirm that I would need a laminated 335 type guitar for this application?

Btw. I'm an experienced player and teacher. My jazz guitars include a '72 L5 CES, an ES175 (both gone), an Eastman AR610, and that T185MX.

[gitman]

You are quite right in your assumption that a more solid, thick-topped guitar (very preferably one with a sustain-block running down the middle) will get you that sustained, more biting and trebly lead sound a la Carlton, Ford, Ritenour etc.
It's not so much a question whether the top wood is a laminate or solid (the first version of the Collings I35 is made out of all solid woods + sustain-block) but that block in the center is crucial IMHO. A Stop Tailpiece increases high-end response and sustain a little bit but also colores the tone more towards a solidbody guitar. Listen to some classic BB King stuff : he used an ES- 355 with the stock vibrato-tailpiece and his sound is a bit more percussive , with less sustain when compared to the classic Carlton sound on Steely Dan's "Don't take me alive" , "Chain Reaction" by the Crusaders or Ford's sound on
Joni Mitchell's "Miles and Ailses" etc.

[Hari Seldon]

So less resonance is better with gain.
This would mean I won't really be happy with that Eastman for those Carlton/Ford tones?

So I still need 1 more guitar...

:- /

[md54]

You definitely need a centre block or even a plain solid body. A telecaster with a neck humbucker would be my choice. Get a Mexican one. It will give you everything from Ed Bickert to Keith Richard! Frankly all hollow guitars are a historic anomaly and totally impractical in the modern world.

[citizenk74]

As detailed above, laminate with solid center block is the time-tested formula for juicy, sustaining tone at moderate stage volumes.

[jads57]

PRS Hollow Body guitars might be the exception to the rule. But they don't have a lot of acoustic volume either. They have a brace or wood carved in u der the bridge itself.

[gitman]

PRS Hollow Body guitars might be the exception to the rule. But they don't have a lot of acoustic volume either. They have a brace or wood carved in u der the bridge itself.

I've used a PRS hollowbody for a couple of years and found it to be a very versatile guitar with it's own character. It has a small + solid block of wood right underneath the one-piece bridge/tailpiece and the rest of the body is completely hollow. The acoustic tone of course is nothing but since the guitar is made of solid wood it has a very quick response (faster than an ES model) - the tone is not as creamy or smooth but cuts through a bit better in a dense mix. The small body makes it very comfortable to play in either position and it weighs next to nothing. As always, it's a personal preference - I sold it (no seller's remorse) and kept my ES-345, which simply has more of what I want to hear and feel. YMMV
Again, that classic late 70's /early 80's west coast Pop-Jazz sound is an ES model through a small-ish tube amp, typically some Fender Blackface model or a Boutique version .... the first Boogies were souped up Fender designs as were the various Dumble models - with the cascading of channels (two gain stages) and a master volume control you got the thick tone with heavy overdrive at tolerable volume levels.