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  1. #51

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    One speaker I don’t see mentioned is Jupiter. They are my absolute favorite for Fenders. They are made by WGS to Jupiter specs, but have something the WGS don’t, to my ears. Tight, almost piano-like bass, sparkling highs.

    Also remember wattage rating is output before a certain amount of distortion. Your amp can and does peak much higher.

    Steven

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Is it a harmonic thing that is only certain notes? If so try different string brand or gauge.

    if is a general problem that is weird I have played mine on 8 with a 175 and with an overdrive pedal but they are plywood I guess so maybe more resistant to feedback.

    turn bass down a bit on the amp of course another factor. I find as you turn fender volume up bass increases so I turn the bass down.

    another one is lift the pickup height can make a big volume difference.

    gotta be a solution in there

  4. #53

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    Thanks, the EQ is a good idea, I'll try pushing the bass down. I used to have the B/T on 1 b/c I thought it gave it more mids (?) but lately I've had both EQ on 5 to give it a "flat Princeton" sound.

    I've thought about Empress ParaEQ but I don't want to spend that kind of money for -- snooze -- EQ!

  5. #54

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    If you pay $1000 for an amp and have to change the speaker and/or tubes to get the tone you're after, you bought the wrong amp.

  6. #55

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    I have bought $200-$300 amps, changed the speaker and been very happy and convinced I spent my money wisely.

  7. #56

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    I have no problem swapping out speakers on used or vintage amps. Even with that pragmatic approach, I'm guilty of going down the speaker rabbit hole, trying to find the perfect match for each amp.

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by whiskey02
    If you pay $1000 for an amp and have to change the speaker and/or tubes to get the tone you're after, you bought the wrong amp.
    Well yes, hindsight is 20/20. It has a good sound but will be the last amp I buy north of 5W without a master volume...

  9. #58

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    Eminence Alessandro anyone? Recording links?
    Cheers

  10. #59

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    I just bought an used Fender 65 Princeton Reverb and want to replace the Speaker. From my beloved Fender Super Champ XD I know that the Eminence Cannabis Rex is a fine choice for a 10" speaker in that size of combo. Im tempted to just use the same in the Princeton, but want to get your opinion first.

    I play big L5 style ARIA Pro II version und do a lot of playing with a singer. So walking bass and a lot of chord work is what i do most. I prefer a deep and big as possible sound out of the small amp.

    What is your recommendation? Just do the Cannabis Rex or should i give another one a try.

    Thanks for all your answers in advance.

    Stay healthy

    Greetings from Bavaria.

  11. #60

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    I actually have a Princeton Reverb Re-Issue with the 12" CR speaker and I really like it. I play an L5ces and an Aria Pro II PE180 through it and it sounds (to me) wonderful. There might be a few better speakers for that amp, but there are a lot more that are worse.

  12. #61

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    I have the same guitar and amp plus two 175 very distinct (1989 and 2007). I replaced the OEM Jensen by a Eminence Lil’ Buddy. The C Rex 10” didn’t exist at the time but both of them are the same, with the hemp cones.

    I got the beautiful warmer sound I wanted. Very satisfied.

  13. #62

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    Did you exchange the buffle for the 12‘’

  14. #63

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    many players like the hemp cones with ferrite magnet speakers..they have big bass/lower midrange sound...that makes the 10" size speaker and cab sound bigger & a bit warmer

    but for true deep solid bass (not boomy) and chimey clear highs, no 10" beats the celestion alnico gold...pricey, but one of the best speakers ever made..a classic

    cheers

  15. #64

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    I think the main question with Princeton's and humbucker archtops is how to cut down bass not how to add more bass.

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWS
    Did you exchange the buffle for the 12‘’
    No. I tried the 12” on an external cabinet and didn’t enjoy it that much. Some people even say that an archtop sounds better on 10”, I don’t know, it’s not a law anyway, but a kept the 10”.

    Sometimes in my home studio I use the IR of the Alnico Gold and is pretty good, but pricey, yes. Those Eminence are very affordable.
    However, when using Impulse Responses, the EVML is my favorite.

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    I think the main question with Princeton's and humbucker archtops is how to cut down bass not how to add more bass.
    that's why i always recommend the celestion gold...solid not boomy!!! hi-fi tone with pretty flat mids and beautiful top end...full range tone...and super efficient. so it makes the most of the princetons relatively low power output

    cheers

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    I think the main question with Princeton's and humbucker archtops is how to cut down bass not how to add more bass.
    In my personal case, the twang plink of the high notes left me crazy. The Jensen suited better my Tele than the archtops.

  19. #68

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    sticking a 12" speaker in a 10" designed cab, does not automatically insure better bigger tone...the search for the right 12" speaker will still exist..as the small cabinet size can choke all the seeming benefits of a larger speaker... the 12" speaker still has to be chosen carefully...if not moreso!!

    alnico gold 10" delivers all the tone without the work of a new baffle..and search for the right 12"

    cheers

  20. #69

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    Thank for all your thoughts.

    anyone experience with this one?

    Weber 10F150T Light Doping Black Dog

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordalis
    In my personal case, the twang plink of the high notes left me crazy. The Jensen suited better my Tele than the archtops.
    But speaker with more bass may not address the thin, bright high notes. Some speakers have both (lots of bass and aggressive highs). I hear hem speakers do a good job at rolling off the highs.
    Heavier gauge strings and some EQ might address that as well. May be you do this already but I use 13's or 14' on my ES 175 to avoid plinkyness.
    Last edited by Tal_175; 03-20-2020 at 09:45 PM.

  22. #71

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    I agree, Tal, heavy gauges help to attenuate the plink, but I’m not fan of EQ to solve a good guitar and amp sound. With 90€ I got a big smile anytime I play.

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordalis
    No. I tried the 12” on an external cabinet and didn’t enjoy it that much. Some people even say that an archtop sounds better on 10”, I don’t know, it’s not a law anyway, but a kept the 10”.

    Sometimes in my home studio I use the IR of the Alnico Gold and is pretty good, but pricey, yes. Those Eminence are very affordable.
    However, when using Impulse Responses, the EVML is my favorite.
    My '68 Princeton Reverb has a 10" Emi. Legend that sounds great.
    However, my '69 Princeton (non-reverb) has an EV10L that sounds amazing!!!

  24. #73

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    IME the Cannabis Rex does not increase bass, it decreases and tightens it, and enhances the treble. I've had the same result in an open-back 2x10 and a closed-back 10.

  25. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordalis
    I agree, Tal, heavy gauges help to attenuate the plink, but I’m not fan of EQ to solve a good guitar and amp sound. With 90€ I got a big smile anytime I play.
    I don't know which I hate more, twang or plink. But, since they often come together, I don't need to decide.

    Most guitars I play have both in the upper registers of the high E string.

    I've tried the following unsuccessfully:

    1. Every possible configuration of pickup and polepiece adjustment

    2. Different eq. Can eliminate the twang and plink but at the risk of deadening the sound.

    3. Different guitars. Best one was a 2009 or so D'Angelico Korean EXDC, which sounded perfect when new and gradually worsened.

    4. So, I tried meticulous fretwork by a master craftsman, to no avail. And, then by another, just in case.

    5. Usual prescription is heavier strings (not much help) or a lighter touch (next thing you know, they'll want me to be a better player).

    6. Raising the action. Not much benefit and I couldn't stand the feel.

    What did help:

    1. Careful attention to small adjustments of the tone (standard treble roll-off). The Comins GCS-1 has a pot that is not at all linear in its effect. Most of the audible change is in a very small arc of the total possible rotation of the knob. If I get it just right ....

    2. Lowering my standards.

    3. DV Mark Little Jazz. It seems not to reproduce plink and twang very efficiently. That's a feature, not a bug, in my case. You may feel differently. It just might be a speaker issue, but I have no way of knowing.

    4. Using a processed solo tone to thicken the sound. I do it with harmonizer, but it could be done in different ways.

    To sum up the help column: I got to the point where I could play for a night and not think about it.

  26. #75

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    In 1965, a Princeton amp more than likely came with an Oxford 10J4 speaker with the blue Fender Special Design sticker on it. Compared to modern speakers, it is inefficient so will not have the same high volume. But volume is not tone. These are the speakers that gave us that ‘60s California tone we all love. Not shrill and not boomy. And used speakers can typically be found for less $ than a new boutique speaker.

    Many people like putting a 12” speaker in the 10” cabinet, but I believe they are more concerned with volume (or possibly sound dispersion from a stage). The trade off is, if the amp was not designed for a 12” speaker, it has to work hard to get that cone moving. Softer finger-style passages may get lost.

    i have this speaker in my own ‘65 PR reissue and love it.

  27. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    I don't know which I hate more, twang or plink. But, since they often come together, I don't need to decide.

    Most guitars I play have both in the upper registers of the high E string.

    I've tried the following unsuccessfully:

    1. Every possible configuration of pickup and polepiece adjustment

    2. Different eq. Can eliminate the twang and plink but at the risk of deadening the sound.

    3. Different guitars. Best one was a 2009 or so D'Angelico Korean EXDC, which sounded perfect when new and gradually worsened.

    4. So, I tried meticulous fretwork by a master craftsman, to no avail. And, then by another, just in case.

    5. Usual prescription is heavier strings (not much help) or a lighter touch (next thing you know, they'll want me to be a better player).

    6. Raising the action. Not much benefit and I couldn't stand the feel.

    What did help:

    1. Careful attention to small adjustments of the tone (standard treble roll-off). The Comins GCS-1 has a pot that is not at all linear in its effect. Most of the audible change is in a very small arc of the total possible rotation of the knob. If I get it just right ....

    2. Lowering my standards.

    3. DV Mark Little Jazz. It seems not to reproduce plink and twang very efficiently. That's a feature, not a bug, in my case. You may feel differently. It just might be a speaker issue, but I have no way of knowing.

    4. Using a processed solo tone to thicken the sound. I do it with harmonizer, but it could be done in different ways.

    To sum up the help column: I got to the point where I could play for a night and not think about it.
    I understand you an all the process you went through, but I don’t want to hijack the thread. Much of that annoying in Jazz twang/plink depend on the guitar and the humbucker type. My 175 (1989) with Tim Shaw pickups was more sensible to that than the 2007 one with the more warmer 57’ classics. The mahogany/Tim Shaw sounds better to me but I have to play it with more control and picking on the sweet spot space between the neck and the pickup.

    Tweaking the pole screws and height was also important. I also tried different materials on the bridge and I ended up with a ebony custom made base and a fabulous ABR-1 TOM in aluminum by the German ABM company. Replacing the speaker solve the rest of the problem.

    To the OP question, I bet half of the speakers on the market will be suggested. I had the same doubt on the choosing moment and in Europe we don’t have as many speakers offer than in USA, so I decide not to risk too much money. I was lucky.

  28. #77

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    I love the Weber 10F150T I put in my '71 silverface Princeton Reverb. I think 25W and no dope or other stuff you can add. Definitely worth a serious look in my opinion.

    Here is the fenderguru.com page on the BF/SF Princeton Reverb. Maybe you've seen it but an case anyone hasn't then this has a lot of good information.

    Good luck!

  29. #78

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    Eminence GA-SC64 Puts the mids forward a bit and has a warm (but clear) high end. It's inexpensive. This is a 12" but they probably make a 10" equivalent.

  30. #79

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    Unpopular opinion perhaps but, if a $1000 amp needs a different speaker, you’ve bought the wrong amp.
    I have never understood the popularity of fender blackface amps that so many complain about being overly bright and shrill in combination with being bass heavy, with the added caveat of the most common advice to make them acceptable is to set the bass and treble between .5 - 1 on the dials.

  31. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by whiskey02
    Unpopular opinion perhaps but, if a $1000 amp needs a different speaker, you’ve bought the wrong amp.
    I have never understood the popularity of fender blackface amps that so many complain about being overly bright and shrill in combination with being bass heavy, with the added caveat of the most common advice to make them acceptable is to set the bass and treble between .5 - 1 on the dials.
    Fender Blackface amps are my absolute favorites. Simple, sweet, clean, warm, just great tones. But like guitars, you get something that ball park works for you then customize further with string types, different pickups etc. Amps may also need individualization. One size fits all factory specs don't always address nuances of individual needs/preferences.
    Last edited by Tal_175; 03-22-2020 at 01:00 PM.

  32. #81

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    I’m with Tal. The amp doesn’t “need” a different speaker, I simply prefer other speaker, a sound nuance. If I use it to play Country with a Tele the original speaker would be perfect.

  33. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    I think the main question with Princeton's and humbucker archtops is how to cut down bass not how to add more bass.
    It reminds me of a very early black face PR I had. When you hit the low E at the volume of above 5 or so, it became a fart machine.

  34. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by tele3
    It reminds me of a very early black face PR I had. When you hit the low E at the volume of above 5 or so, it became a fart machine.
    Yes. I play a 330. One thing I like about the Webber is that there isn't too much bass. I can turn the amp all the way up and it's always usable—sounds wonderful at any volume actually.

  35. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by tele3
    It reminds me of a very early black face PR I had. When you hit the low E at the volume of above 5 or so, it became a fart machine.
    thats because the speakers were low power handling...why fender amps were blowing speakers coils all the time...those ceramic oxfords and cts were cheap...fender offered jbls as a premium if you wanted good tone!! if you want a clean tone get a speaker thats over rated for the power your tubes are puttin out

    unless you want the extra ragged tone a low powered speaker adds to your guitar-amp tone...some do...

    they even used to slice their speaker cones to get distortion

    and also as i writ ^ the small cab dimension limits volume and tone as well

    cheers

  36. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by tele3
    It reminds me of a very early black face PR I had. When you hit the low E at the volume of above 5 or so, it became a fart machine.
    try that w/an original Jensen C10N, or even better, one of the many more efficient speakers speakers available today.
    you might still own the amp....

  37. #86

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    I've lost the battle with the fart monster. The day I sold it I felt relieved. No, it wasn't the speaker, transformer, cabinet, etc. I just tried everything.

  38. #87

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    Well. The 12" C-rex is my speaker in my rock/blues amps.

    I tried 10" C-rex's in a Custom Vibrolux Reverb, and was not impressed.

    For PRs, the Alnico Gold sounds heavenly for a 10". I have a PR with a Celestion Cream Alnico 12", and it's the bees knees. If I were sticking with a 10" speaker, for jazz, I would do either the Alnico Gold OR a Greenback (which my last PR had in it). But the 12" Cream is awesome.

  39. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordalis
    I’m with Tal. The amp doesn’t “need” a different speaker, I simply prefer other speaker, a sound nuance. If I use it to play Country with a Tele the original speaker would be perfect.
    Well, JMHO, but the stock C10R is pretty much a piece of crap, flabby, loose, terrible sounding speaker, for anything other than "quiet" home play. And it takes pedals like crap too. Makes a great amp into crappy amp. A decent speaker is the 100% best "upgrade" for these amps. If Fender was putting a C10N in there, possibly a different story.... (Jenson doesn't even make C10Ns anymore)

  40. #89

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    Agree. When I hold for the first time the Emi in my hands I perceive immediately the superior quality construction.

    i suppose the Eminence are made in USA and Jensen in Italy. In Europe the Italians have a good reputation in design but not so good on industry and appliances. But I don’t wanna be unfair, anyway, a hemp cone is very much robust than... paper.

    I’d like to try an old C10N, yes.
    Last edited by Cordalis; 03-22-2020 at 10:08 PM.

  41. #90

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    So I finally went for the Eminence Cannabis Rex and was not very happy with the sound. Now I think that maybe the princeton wasn't a particularly good choice.

    Just to weak in clean Bassresponse und to much metallic highs.

    I talked to a experienced tube amp specialist and he told me that the Princeton would never archive that kind of sound im looking for. He recommended a bigger amp with at 20 to 40 Watts with stronger transformers and stuff.. So should I give the new Fender hotrod a try?

  42. #91

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    Sorry that didn't work for you. I don't have any firsthand experience with Cannabis Rex, but I did try a tone tubby alnico version that I absolutely hated and exhibited the kind of sound you are describing. I pulled that speaker out almost immediately cause I didn't feel any amount of breaking in would produce the sound I was looking for. I now have a jaded opinion on hemp speakers! I don't know how loud your looking to play but at "before" breakup volume my princeton has incredible bass response and the highs could never be described as metallic. The Princeton circuit is arguably among the darkest of the Fender amps. Any chance of you plugging your Princeton in to a different cabinet with a 12"?

    Quote Originally Posted by JWS
    So I finally went for the Eminence Cannabis Rex and was not very happy with the sound. Now I think that maybe the princeton wasn't a particularly good choice.

    Just to weak in clean Bassresponse und to much metallic highs.

    I talked to a experienced tube amp specialist and he told me that the Princeton would never archive that kind of sound im looking for. He recommended a bigger amp with at 20 to 40 Watts with stronger transformers and stuff.. So should I give the new Fender hotrod a try?

  43. #92

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    That is very disappointing. I suffered a lot in the search of the sound I wanted, but all of this is based on our desires and personal taste. At the time I was inspired by these videos, because I have the same guitars (same years) and the same amp. Even the style of playing approach and touch are similar.

    First thing I did was to brake the new speaker (Lil’ Bud) with a looper playing several days.

    I hope you can get a pleasant sound to you.



  44. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiboyny
    Eminence GA-SC64 Puts the mids forward a bit and has a warm (but clear) high end. It's inexpensive. This is a 12" but they probably make a 10" equivalent.
    I have HUGE GAS on that speaker!
    I wanted to try it for years.
    I've heard only best about him.

  45. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mecena
    I have HUGE GAS on that speaker!
    I wanted to try it for years.
    I've heard only best about him.
    I think for the money it can't be beat in a Fender amp. I've tried it in a Princeton and Deluxe and it sounds real nice in both. The Celestion Cream is a bit better but it's 2 thirds more money. Haven't tried it in the Princeton yet so the jury's still out. They are similar though. To me in a Fender amp you need to get some of the scoop out for jazz. You know we all hear things differently though...

  46. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWS
    So I finally went for the Eminence Cannabis Rex and was not very happy with the sound. Now I think that maybe the princeton wasn't a particularly good choice.

    Just to weak in clean Bassresponse und to much metallic highs.

    I talked to a experienced tube amp specialist and he told me that the Princeton would never archive that kind of sound im looking for. He recommended a bigger amp with at 20 to 40 Watts with stronger transformers and stuff.. So should I give the new Fender hotrod a try?
    If it's really the amp's circuitry and design, you can find that out easily enough if you can get your hands on a "power soak." If you don't know, a power soak like the Bugera PS1 takes the output that would go to the speaker and "absorbs" it so your output transform thinks it has a load. It that taps that signal and sends it out as a line-level or XLR (depending on the unit).

    If the Princeton is inherently weak in the bass and metallic in the lights, running the line from the power soak into a mixer and listening on headphones should confirm it. If it can be made to sound fine on headphones, then you likely have still a speaker issue to pursue.

  47. #96

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    I recommend the EMI GA SC64 and the Jupiter 12LC or their 10" equivalents very highly for the PR. Another one is the EMI 1028K. I have the GA SC64 in my Fender Deluxe Reverb Alessandro HW. Louis Electric Deltone uses the Jupiter 12LC. Both work brilliantly.

    I am one who thinks that the 10" is the best driver for a PR and its puny output transformer. Keep a Princeton Reverb as a Princeton Reverb and you would learn to work around its limitations. A PR with an uprated output transformer, upgraded power supply, larger cab and 12" loses much of the character and charm of the original design remit. IMHO.

    Like yourself, I found out that I had and have no love for hempcones. The 4 I heard, C Rex, Lil Buddy, Hempdog and Tone Tubby have a nasality that annoyed me. The first impression was a good one: clean, well behaved, controlled with a comparatively taut bass. Living with a hempcone, you hear its virtues turn into faults. The clean tone lacks complexity and sounds boring; the well-behaved nature becomes stiff feeling and lacking in liveliness; the controlled bass sounds like an undifferentiated thud. There is a nasal spike at about 2.8KHz that jabs at my ears. I EQ that out and the driver sounds dead. Hempcones make a valve amp sound solid-state and not in a good way. Hempcones filter out the complexities of the electronic valve. I must caution you that I have been known to be amenable to the methods of the late Peter Belt. Nuff said.

    As for the Hot Rod Deluxe 4 or Hot Rod Deville 4, they are one of the most available backline amps and many use them as pedal platforms. 6L6 based. Much to like about them. The only turnoff is its build quality. I suppose it could last ten years. But I kind of expect a valve amp to last forever with simple maintenance of capacitors. I was actually looking for one. After taking into account upgrades for reliability and better parts it made more sense to buy a used Carr Rambler or a used Suhr Bella or a used Dr Z Z-lux.

    A PR is good onstage for tonal colour, miked up for a PA, not as an amp per se. For what you are looking for, I am going to go with a left field suggestion: get a Strymon Iridium $399 pedal and just run that into the PA or active speaker. I think you would solve most of your practical onstage problems.

    IMHO.