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No doubt about it, even if market prices have gone up ... Here's a chord melody. It's my own arrangement though I stole certain voicings.
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03-04-2020 10:48 AM
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Hi, DB,
Nice sound. However, whenever we listen to an acoustic, amplified instrument, a valid question is how much of the sound is the specific guitar and how much is in the amplification and tone controls? I play an ES 125TC (a brighter sound unamplified than your guitar) and set my amp controls at mid settings with the exception of the high control which I set below mid-range to compensate for the very bright sound of my trebles. I do not use reverb, and set the tone control on my guitar at 5 of 10. It gives me a much more balanced sound for my ears. I also play exclusively finger-style so it is a rounder sound than using a pick. Are you willing to share your recipe for sound on your ES? Good playing . . . Marinero
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Sure. I ran the ES 125 directly through a valve pre-amp into my guitar interface and then I added some reverb and compression in my recording software. There was no EQ added and all the tone controls on the guitar were open.
Originally Posted by Marinero
Thanks for listening.
DB
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Hi, DB, Originally Posted by DB's Jazz Guitar Blog
Thanks for the reply. However, I think I'm still living in the Pleistocene Era when it comes to what's available for electronic sound today. I'm still playing out of my old fender piano amp. Good playing . . . Marinero
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I don’t understand recording how does this work? What is a valve preamp and could you explain better? What gear is needed that sound you got on the 125 sounds great. Like a full orchestra!
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I agree with you about the sound. It's fantastic. Valve means tube. A preamp with a tube in it, that is then plugged into a whatyamajig, like a soundboard or digital interface to the recording device, or computer (DAWS, digitalaudio workstation) with s/w for recording, playback, mixing and editing. DB sounds great. I'd like to hear his answer about this. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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There was a thread on this last year, I don’t know if he is still using the same setup though:
The Art Tube MP Studio V3
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I'll explain my recording setup and add some pics so you can see. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
What I do is called direct recording, meaning there is no microphone involved. That gives me way better results than with a miked amp. I need 6 things: a camera, a laptop with recording and video editing software, a pre-amp and a guitar interface.
My "amp" is a pre-amp with a tube in it. It's the blue "StudioV3" amp that you see in the pic. It's just an amp, no speaker involved. You can't stick a pre-amp directly into a pc or laptop so you need a guitar interface that converts the analog signal of the pre-amp to a digital one that the laptop can import. That's where the "Focusrite" comes in. It's the red box. You can see a yellow cable going from the pre-amp into the interface .The interface is connected with the laptop via usb.
The guitar signal goes into my recording software for processing and mixing (Sonar X2 Producer). I can add some reverb or compression or mix it with a play-along etc. It's a professional grade virtual audio recording studio actually.
You can see a camcorder too on my desk. When I record the guitar track in my virtal audio studio, I record a video track simultaneously. That video track is later - so after recording the audio track - imported into my video software (Power Director) and then synchronised with it (so the final audio track (WAV) from my audio recording software is placed under the video (MP4). It's also possible to record directly into my camcorder by connecting it to my guitar interface but I prefer doing it in two steps so I can fully utilise the mixing possibilities of my audio software.
It takes a while to learn all this (especially the audio and video software) but that's how I record these days.
The hardware involved (pre-amp, guitar interface, camcorder) is relatively cheap but outstanding. I use little to no EQ to change the sound of my guitars. All pots on the guitars are open usually. That pre-amp sounds just fine. And of course my vintage P90 guitars (ES 350, ES 300, ES 125) have that dry woodyness that translates so great to recording like this. What you hear is the guitar, not the amp so much (no speaker involved).
DB
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Quite so Graham. Thanks for pointing this out. Originally Posted by grahambop
DB
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Interesting. I also like the ART V3. It’s cheap, but there’s not a lot like it out there.
they could charge me three times the price if they put a parametric EQ on it lol.
i haven’t actually tried it direct like that, but it sounds so good I’ll probably start using it that way.
i tend to use it live. This thing sounds great into any amp.
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I agree with Dick that direct is the way to go, seems to work especially well with archtops. I’ve never had much luck getting a great sound with mics, and I end up tripping over cables and mic stands etc. when I’ve already got a camera to worry about.
I use a rather more ‘budget’ setup though, sometimes I plug my guitar straight into my digital recorder (just a small Korg thing), then transfer the recorded WAV file to my PC and add a ‘tube’ effect and some reverb and compression in Audacity. Or I use the line out from my DV Mark Little Jazz into the Korg, and then the same as before (but no ‘tube’ effect is needed since the amp signal has coloured the sound enough for me). Free VST plugins are available for the effects I use in Audacity (I am a bit of a cheapskate!).
I too record the video (just using my compact camera these days!) and subsequently match up the video and separately-recorded audio using the video editing software on my PC. I suppress the camera audio track although it can be useful initially for lining up the 2 sound tracks.
I do need to upgrade my very ancient PC and software soon though, it’s barely useable these days!
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Thanks DB for the excellent reply and Graham for the added link. This is really quite amazing to me how far technology has advanced. For many of us who are "old school," this is a whole new level of understanding--at least for performance. So, DB, for working musicians, how do you get this sound when you're playing a gig? Do you bring all the equipment and plug into an amp? Can this also work for amplifying a Classical guitar played through a mic? And, then one asks the question: how much of the sound is the guitar and how much is the equipment? From my limited understanding, you could probably plug a $500. archtop into this excellent system and get a great sound. Am I wrong? Thanks for the reply. I think this is an important discussion for many of us players. Good playing . . . Marinero
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I do it slightly differently from DB -- I use amp simulation ("models") that comes with my recording software (Garageband) rather than an external pre-amp to shape the guitar sound (though I've done that quite a lot in the past). I just plug my guitar into an interface (one made by Presonus), and connect that to my computer by USB. Sometimes I combine this with video (using my phone), sometimes not. Sometimes I just use my phone for both video and audio, and live with the lousy audio quality. I could use computer/amp-sim set-up on a gig by plugging the computer's output into an amp or PA. I've seen people do this. It can also be done with a phone or tablet (rather than a computer) that has amp simulation software installed on it. Personally, I don't do that since I prefer amps with knobs to computers with menus. That, and for such a system to actually work the venue has to have a decent PA and stage monitor system, which is not the case in the typical restaurant/bar/coffee-house gigs that many of us play. Originally Posted by Marinero
To the question of how much sound is the guitar vs the set-up -- it's no different from using an amp. You can use an amp to highly color the sound (to the point that it almost doesn't matter what guitar you use), or you can go the opposite way. Ditto for direct recording/processing devices. DB's recordings sound pretty uncolored to me, basically what he would get by plugging into a PA or maybe something like an AER amp. If he had used a bad sounding guitar, processing it minimally like this would be unlikely to make it sound good, but you never know. There are also a lot of really good-sounding $500 guitars these days.
I'd also add that this sort of direct-recording set-up is far from new. People have been doing this for decades. The only difference is that these days almost no one uses tape anymore; and the mechanics of editing audio and video and combining them are much easier now and can be done with free or cheap software on a consumer grade computer rather than on special pro-equipment.
John
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I could be easily happy with that sound in the OP for the rest of my life.
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How does I get that with my ES-125, Rivera Jazz 25 and almost no skill? Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Truth. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Very nice sound and arrangement. I have a similar guitar - 1961 Epiphone Century - thin hollowbody non-cutaway with one P-90 made in Kalamazoo Michigan. I can't tell from the video if yours is the thin model or thick. What year is it? What strings do you have on it?
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It's a full bodied ES 125 from 1964. There is a 0.11 TI Jazz Swing set on it, so a pretty light gauge. It's a lovely light and responsive guitar. Originally Posted by RobbieAG
DB
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can you get a bit of hair on the sound with that if you dig in ? Originally Posted by christianm77
my setup's great at the mo , but it's super clean
I'm playing a few pop/soul songs with a band these days
and i think need a bigger sound , not rock tho
funky things
would an ART work for that , I see it's got a decent boost on it !
It looks very funky too ....
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I seem to remember former forum member "Targuit" really fawning over your a video you put up a few years back. It did have great quality and playing. If that is the setup you are still using then I agree, it was very nice. Originally Posted by grahambop
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And thanks for sharing your "secrets." Some people don't believe in doing it. Originally Posted by DB's Jazz Guitar Blog
I still remember how hard you tweaked and experimented with your recording process. Your hard work and I assume, many hours, really paid off handsomely.
That guitar and the others that you play might be of some help, too. I have seen other players with that ES125 on Youtube. I don't recall hearing a poor tone, yet!
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Thanks. Yes that’s basically the setup I’ve used for a long time, basically direct via some kind of amp (either a Roland Cube or more recently the Little Jazz), or using an amp sim in Audacity. Originally Posted by AlsoRan
Some of my soundcloud tracks were done in GarageBand on the iPad, using a Line 6 gadget with amp sims.
It all sounds much the same really. Personally I think a lot of the tone is down to the player. I have handed my 175 to other good players a couple of times, and they sounded quite different to me on it.
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I did this recording once as a test to see how my 175 recorded, I just went direct with no effects or amp sims or anything added, only some reverb. I don’t think it sounds much different!
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Old ART stuff is great. Either of these antiques will also do the job of the ART very nicely:
Last edited by Hammertone; 03-06-2020 at 07:39 AM.
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An ES-125 sounds great no matter how you record it. :-)
Here is mine thru an amp recorded with a mic in front of it:
Sorry... I have the nasty habbit of throwing my own stuff into other people's threads.....
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