How do you feel about modelers?

**rpjazzguitar** · 04-25-2024, 01:38 PM

Some, maybe all of the modelers, have slots to insert downloaded IRs.

There are a zillion choices, some for free, others not.

Very little info on how to go about choosing one.

And, of course, what sounds good in the practice room doesn't necessarily sound good on the gig. On the ME90 switching IRs, iirc, was an arcane series of button pushes to select one of four choices. A lot to remember when you're on a bandstand.

In the ME90 setup I tried, most, but not all, things are controllable with knobs. Still, say there's a problem. The guitar doesn't sound right. On my guitar I've got two pickups, four knobs and a selector switch. First off, I have to verify that the selector switch hasn't been moved. It should be on neck pu. Then it's two knobs. I usually have volume full up, so I need to check that and then see if rotating the tone knob solves the problem.

If it doesn't, next up is the ME90. Depending on the patch, I might have a preamp model with 3 EQ knobs, gain and level. A separate EQ module with 3 bands plus level. And, some other processing, maybe compression, maybe some kind of modulation -- with a couple more knobs for each. Less visible is the cabinet modeling and IR modeling. There's also a PA/Amp switch on the back which makes significant changes which, as I write this, I can't fully recall. Bass is blooming, treble is thin -- where to begin the adjustments?

And then, the amp, with another set of EQ controls and volume.

I have had the experience of accidentally moving the pickup selector switch and not realizing it. Next thing, I'm fiddling with every knob in the system. When I finally figure out it was the switch, my entire rig is adjusted incorrectly and I have no idea what the current settings are.

Now, that happened a while back. So now I turn down the bridge pu volume all the way. If the switch gets thrown I get silence so I can figure it out.

I used patches which I could get back to in case of a random adjustment problem.

I went back to an amp after trying a couple of powered speakers with complicated or poorly documented features (I posted ad nauseum about that).

So, it's all controllable, but it's not user friendly. I imagine there's a way to power through all of that, but, frankly, I didn't think it was worth it, since I can get most of what I want with a simpler setup.

Unfortunate, because there are advantages to something like the Bose S1, if you can get it to sound right. It's very powerful, small and light. It's very good for vocals and can sound great for guitar when the planets line up. But, it required modeling/EQ or something in front and that ended up being complicated.

**jzucker** · 04-25-2024, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Alter

Two very simple solid contenders for jazz seem to be the Boss IR-2 and the brand new Tonex One. Two channels, amp, reverb, the tonex also has a compressor and a tuner.

BOSS - IR-2 | Amp & Cabinet

TONEX ONE

The Tonex seems more impressive, but when trying them, it comes down to which one feels best.. At least they are cheap, so easy to try. I preferred the Boss IR-2 over the Helix stomp and Boss Gt-1000 core for the simplicity alone. Plus the less digital stuff you got the easier it is to get a good sound. Will get the Tonex one when it is available!

ToneX sounds wonderful but has little capability on the box to speak of.

**Jimmy Smith** · 04-25-2024, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by Christian Miller

I am, which means I eat avocado toast - but I’m on team knobs.

Haha exactly. I think it's cool that even though our micro generation came of age around the millennium, we were still the last to experience olden type society. I was born in 85 and I remember elementary school before widespread use of the internet. I think I was in 5th or 6th grade when the school and my home got AOL.

**orri** · 04-26-2024, 08:15 AM

I'm in that micro generation too.
I think I would go for a Boss ME90 if I needed something practical and versatile. If I had some gig or jam context where I'd want to be able to quickly access tones for a varied repertoire and varieid genres genres. That's the kind of product I would want.
If I were in a rock/pop band, where we play the same songs and each sections of a song has it's own pre programmed sound, I think I would want a modeller with a "stage" mode.
(However I mainly play jazz with other people, so plugging an archtop into an amp with a built in reverb suits all my current needs outside of my flat)

I do find products off putting if they're designed to be used with an app, as its main use case (I think its cool if its optional feature, rather than necessary).

I don't think anyone really loves menu scrolling (some definitely despise it). I can accept it as a necessary evil if it gives me a tonne of extra options.

But what I would like to buy at this point is a modelling product with market leading sound quality and market leading intuitive, easy to use touch screen UI. My understanding is that only Quad Cortex and Tonemaster pro have a UI at that level at the moment. (I think boss gx100 made a decent attempt but didn't nail it to the top tier level, and I don't have full picture on the newer headrush, ampero, hotone, tonex and more products)

I feel the Tonemaster pro and Quad cortex are too expensive to make any compromises (I'd pay that price if they had everything I want). Tonemaster pro is a tad to big and might need to get a bit more mature with SW/FW updates (a bit like Helix when it was new, but we don't know what or when Fender will deliver).
The Quad cortex effects selection is not market leading, and I want marked leading for that price (and big selling point features like cloud whatever and capturing is of no value to me).

I've been close to getting the HX stomp but I think I do want a easier to use UI (I do check if they pop up used for a more tempting price). Fractal FM3 is also close to what I want, but as I understand it you need to spend more time on tweaking your tones. I want tweaking to be optional and not necessary.

I am still considering if I should get a line6 one, so that I can have it on my pedalboard for effects that I use seldom. (I do own a pedalboard with a tuner and 4 effects I use frequently, if I want to use a chorus and some 4 other effects once a year each, I don't want to double the amount of pedals on my board).

**jzucker** · 04-26-2024, 08:18 AM

quad cortex and tonex are not so great for effects. Fractal blows them away. I wish fractal would create a dumbed down version. HX Stomp has better effects than QC or tonex but not in the same league with fractal. Same with the clean jazz amps. They do have superior bass amps though...

**orri** · 04-26-2024, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

I wish fractal would create a dumbed down version.

I agree, I think I would love a FM3 where I could get all the amps, and effects with great sounding default settings, fast and simple to do common simple tweaks, but also the option to more advanced tweaks (which doesn't need to be as simple).