How do you feel about modelers?

[jorgemg1984]

It seems like I'll have to try a Fractal one day And they just released a new update

Axe-Fx III Firmware 25.00 Public Beta (Cygnus X-3) | Fractal Audio Systems Forum

[Spook410]

It seems like I'll have to try a Fractal one day

I would like to try one. Thing is, all I need from the modeler is a good clean sound in a Fender'ish pre-amp and 6L6 power amp along with a collection of speaker IR's to suit setting and mood. For me it makes more sense to throw money at the FRFR speaker.

[jorgemg1984]

I would like to try one. Thing is, all I need from the modeler is a good clean sound in a Fender'ish pre-amp and 6L6 power amp along with a collection of speaker IR's to suit setting and mood. For me it makes more sense to throw money at the FRFR speaker.

Same here. I'll add eq, a nice reverb and maybe a nice LA-2A compressor, but my base sound is quite simple. Saying that, Fractal's Fender stuff sounds very good! It may seem unlogical to get something like that and only use 0.1& of what it can do, but it does seem like the best sound out there.

[Spook410]

Same here. I'll add eq, a nice reverb and maybe a nice LA-2A compressor, but my base sound is quite simple. Saying that, Fractal's Fender stuff sounds very good! It may seem unlogical to get something like that and only use 0.1& of what it can do, but it does seem like the best sound out there.

Well.. you know.. a Fractal FM3 isn't like.. crazy expensive. Especially if you already have all the other bits.

[princeplanet]

why shocked?

Well, for one thing I assumed Jazz guitar players had conservative opinions about their gear. Maybe I should have written "Pleasantly surprised"?

Or maybe I should just shut up, after all, I'm the kinda guy that wishes that cars and architecture hadn't changed since mid century...

[jorgemg1984]

Well.. you know.. a Fractal FM3 isn't like.. crazy expensive. Especially if you already have all the other bits.

True, I'll try one out soon, I hope.

[Runepune]

The Nux MG-30 is a really nice little, simple modeler. Has everything I need in a simple rig, and sounds better than just about anything else I've tried. I do wish it had XLR outs though.

[jim777]

I think for me personally, I was always a guy who liked the big multi-effects boards that used to be popular. I don't have any of my bar band guitars from the 80's and early 90's left (well, except for one that is basically worn out) but I do still have my (still working) Digitech RP-1! Always loved the simplicity of having everything 'under one roof'.

I tried the Fractal AX-8 for about 18 months and it was just too much for me; too many options, too many points to alter, and I only know one type of sag and it isn't tube related If all I did was music, instead of doing music and holding down a full time non-music job, I would be all modeler at this point. I can't wait to see what is coming in the modeler world because they will get more powerful, easier to use, and cheaper as time goes by, but I think I'm still currently in a place where 4 pedals and a tuner on my board are what works best for me. Maybe when that new baby Kemper is ~$300 on the used market I'll check out one of them.

[jazzgtrl4]

Ive been using fractal stuff since 2009,started with he Ultra, then AxeFx II XL, then the Ax8 (still have), then the first gen FM9, and now FM9 mk II Turbo.
I have to play all styles. country gigs (double on mandolin), rock gigs, show band gigs. Tribute band gigs etc etc. thats what i usually use the Fractal stuff for and its great. i do use it on jazz gigs as well but more funk/jazz, smooth jazz gigs with my sadowsky. for straight ahead gigs i just take a small pedalboard with one of my Henriksens.

[rpjazzguitar]

What concerns me about modelers, and I'd like to hear others' experience, is the potential difficulty in making adjustments on the fly.

For example, on a gig, I have the thought that my high notes aren't thick enough. This is the way I think about tone. Or, my low notes are blooming too much -- too loud or feel like they're swelling.

I'm in the middle of a tune. I want to reach down and tweak something in, say, 5 seconds.

With a modeler, will it be obvious what to adjust? And, if I do know what to adjust, am I going to have to scroll through menus? If my first attempt at an adjustment doesn't work, will I be able to keep track mentally of what I've already adjusted? Or, alternatively, am I likely to get things to the point where I don't know what's going on and I have to start all over?

More generally, if something goes wrong, can I troubleshoot it during the pianist's solo? Or is it going to take longer than that?

With the ME90, a very simple modeler if you can even call it that, if something went wrong I didn't know whether to adjust the actual amp, the guitar's tone control, the preamp model, the EQ module, the cabinet model, the IR (which aren't exactly the same thing) or the PA/amp switch. It was too complicated. I ended up going back to my ME70 and an old JC55. Plug it in and it sounds good all night. I just wish the JC55 was filled with helium and could float to the bandstand from the car.

[Spook410]

The Nux MG-30 is a really nice little, simple modeler. Has everything I need in a simple rig, and sounds better than just about anything else I've tried. I do wish it had XLR outs though.

Simple DI is a good thing to have around in general. Behringer DI works fine. Amazon.com

[Spook410]

.. making adjustments on the fly.

.

Everything you described is the realm of a good EQ as opposed to the modeler. You can choose different IR's on the fly and it makes a big difference in the sound but it doesn't replace EQ.

[Christian Miller]

Actually that’s what I want isn’t it? An ME90.

Told you I was a basic B.


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[jzucker]

What concerns me about modelers, and I'd like to hear others' experience, is the potential difficulty in making adjustments on the fly.

For example, on a gig, I have the thought that my high notes aren't thick enough. This is the way I think about tone. Or, my low notes are blooming too much -- too loud or feel like they're swelling.

I'm in the middle of a tune. I want to reach down and tweak something in, say, 5 seconds.

With a modeler, will it be obvious what to adjust? And, if I do know what to adjust, am I going to have to scroll through menus? If my first attempt at an adjustment doesn't work, will I be able to keep track mentally of what I've already adjusted? Or, alternatively, am I likely to get things to the point where I don't know what's going on and I have to start all over?

More generally, if something goes wrong, can I troubleshoot it during the pianist's solo? Or is it going to take longer than that?

With the ME90, a very simple modeler if you can even call it that, if something went wrong I didn't know whether to adjust the actual amp, the guitar's tone control, the preamp model, the EQ module, the cabinet model, the IR (which aren't exactly the same thing) or the PA/amp switch. It was too complicated. I ended up going back to my ME70 and an old JC55. Plug it in and it sounds good all night. I just wish the JC55 was filled with helium and could float to the bandstand from the car.

The FM3 and FM9 have a 10 band global eq which is relatively easy to edit. Maybe not 5 sec per adjustment but I have been able to tweak it relatively easily.

Additionally, the global EQ is separate for each output so you can tailor the house output differently from the backline

[mr quick]

What concerns me about modelers, and I'd like to hear others' experience, is the potential difficulty in making adjustments on the fly.

For example, on a gig, I have the thought that my high notes aren't thick enough. This is the way I think about tone. Or, my low notes are blooming too much -- too loud or feel like they're swelling.

I'm in the middle of a tune. I want to reach down and tweak something in, say, 5 seconds.

With a modeler, will it be obvious what to adjust? And, if I do know what to adjust, am I going to have to scroll through menus? If my first attempt at an adjustment doesn't work, will I be able to keep track mentally of what I've already adjusted? Or, alternatively, am I likely to get things to the point where I don't know what's going on and I have to start all over?

More generally, if something goes wrong, can I troubleshoot it during the pianist's solo? Or is it going to take longer than that?

With the ME90, a very simple modeler if you can even call it that, if something went wrong I didn't know whether to adjust the actual amp, the guitar's tone control, the preamp model, the EQ module, the cabinet model, the IR (which aren't exactly the same thing) or the PA/amp switch. It was too complicated. I ended up going back to my ME70 and an old JC55. Plug it in and it sounds good all night. I just wish the JC55 was filled with helium and could float to the bandstand from the car.

I used to have the big Headrush board, and what I would do in such a situation (aside from having a fixed global EQ) is to have a master parametric EQ on one of the knobs. Many boards (including the Headrush) have a hands-free mode where you hold on an FX knob for a couple of seconds with your foot and it enters "hands free" mode, where you press a button with your foot for a parameter, and adjust the parameter with the volume pedal. It's actually quite nifty and I used it with one band to adjust the length of a shimmer reverb, so that I could do a really massive bloom at the very end of a song. Also used it to adjust gain on distortion effects mid-solo.

These days I have the small Headrush board, which I would have on a music stand so that I could just use the touch screen if I needed on-the-fly adjustments. I will say, though, once you build some experience with this kind of gear, the need for on-the-fly adjustments becomes increasingly infrequent.

The ME90 you mentioned is a solid piece of kit, but it is completely unintuitive to operate compared to a more sophisticated unit. I wouldn't want to use it on a gig myself for the same reasons you mention.
I used to have an older Nord keyboard which was a nightmare for this reason. Numerical digital displays are too memory-reliant, and I personally can't rely on clarity of memory while I'm on stage. Wait, which E-Piano 1 sound did I use for this song? Was it 2 or 5? What's the difference again? Which one was "Nefertiti rhodes"? Crap!

As a comparison, this is what the screen looks like on what I use:



... The boxes can be named and colour-coded, so I'll have my own pseudo-synesthesia set of rules where chorus is always light blue or light purple, and reverb is dark blue, overdrive is green, distortion and EQ is yellow, and so on.

I'm in the middle of moving right now, but as soon as I get a chance I'll show you what an actual "on-the-fly" situation might look like with this particular unit.

(I'm not trying to sell you on this in particular, but it's what I use and it's considerably quicker and more intuitive than an ME-90)

[Christian Miller]

Boomers and gen X’s grew up with knobs, millennials and gen z grew up with screens….


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[Jimmy Smith]

^ Are you a Xennial?

[Christian Miller]

^ Are you a Xennial?

I am, which means I eat avocado toast - but I’m on team knobs


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[jzucker]

i agree that adjustments on the fly are an issue. I played a club yesterday where my guitar sound was very dark and muddy and the amount of menus and scrolling and paging I have to go through to get to the tone controls is a bit ridiculous. I know some folks have created shortcut menus bound to a foot switch to help them get there. I may have to resort to that.

[jzucker]

but...I also want to say that it's easy to get complacent if you are editing in your (home) studio because tweaks are simple on the computer. Then you get out on the gig like my situation and realize you don't really know how to use the device, you just know how to use the software on your computer!

[Runepune]

What concerns me about modelers, and I'd like to hear others' experience, is the potential difficulty in making adjustments on the fly.

The UAFX series of amp pedals seems like a perfect companion for jazzers. The "Dream" or "Woodrow", that is.

[jzucker]

When I tried the dream, it had no headroom. Distorted way too early.

The UAFX series of amp pedals seems like a perfect companion for jazzers. The "Dream" or "Woodrow", that is.

[Alter]

Two very simple solid contenders for jazz seem to be the Boss IR-2 and the brand new Tonex One. Two channels, amp, reverb, the tonex also has a compressor and a tuner.

BOSS - IR-2 | Amp & Cabinet

TONEX ONE

The Tonex seems more impressive, but when trying them, it comes down to which one feels best.. At least they are cheap, so easy to try. I preferred the Boss IR-2 over the Helix stomp and Boss Gt-1000 core for the simplicity alone. Plus the less digital stuff you got the easier it is to get a good sound. Will get the Tonex one when it is available!

[Runepune]

When I tried the dream, it had no headroom. Distorted way too early.

You couldn't get the volume low enough to get a clean tone?

[jzucker]

You couldn't get the volume low enough to get a clean tone?

no, not unless I kept the guitar volume down around 6-7