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Could you please share your overall assesment of Eastman archtops, both on the instrument as a whole, but more specifically the neck. (Compare to other guitars in the ~$2000 pricerange if possible)
My goal is to get a little below normal action without any buzz using .12's. This is very important to me.
My current Ibanez AF95 buzzes with normal action, and my guitar tech couldn't get it any lower with it fretting out on the bridge-side. At some point I want to outgrow this guitar for something with a nicer neck that can have lower action and no buzz.
Is an Eastman AR-8** the way to go? I can't stand how beautiful these guitars look, they pierce my soul everytime I look at pictures.
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01-11-2010 05:44 PM
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That sound so much cooler than my standard: "I got bad GAS".
Originally Posted by heavyblues
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the eastmans are built really nice. they lack "mojo" to me, but maybe that's because i can't see spending 2K on a chinese made instrument. that's a bias maybe i need to get over.
remember too, around that 2K mark, used guilds are a possibility.
i really wish you lived near me because i'd like an hour with your guitar. i feel like i could get it to play right (i remember your earlier posts about your tech, and the cat doesn't sound like he knows what he's doing. my two cents)I'm not trying to talk you out of buying another guitar, but even though i'm not a big ibanez fan, they're built well enought that with a proper setup you shouldn't have to deal with fretting out issues.
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I own an El Rey 1 and I've played (although not extensively) a T145, which are smaller, thinner models and I don't know if Eastman uses the same neck profile throughout the line, so take this for what it's worth.
I'm not sure what you consider "below normal action." String height on my El Rey is 4/64" (from bottom of the E strings to top of 12th fret) with 11s. Any buzzing comes from operator error, not the guitar. I think I could put 12s on it without any problem.
I have small hands and consider myself very much a beginner, but I found the necks on the El Rey and the T145 very comfortable and fast. When I first tried them out, I also tried a Benedetto Bambino, and I've also had the chance to play my teacher's GB15. I thought the Eastman's stood the comparison well.
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I have only tried one (the archtop with the soundhole like the Gibson HR) and it was very well made. It played beautifully, I can't remember the shape of the neck but it was no wear near as thick as an old Gibson archtop.
It sounded good for a modern archtop, but it didn't sound as dark or warm as any of the older archtops I've played.
but I agree with whats been said you shouldn't have to buy a new guitar... getting a new tech would be a lot cheaper!
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I don't have one, but a friend has an Eastman and I've played it. Plays beautifully and does have those killer good looks. If I had the wallet, I might go for one of these myself. On the buzz issue, I believe that if you want super low action and you play anywhere near hard or fast, you're going to get a little buzz. I go see Howard Alden and Jack Wilkins play - both of them play pretty nice Benedettos (sigh!), and there's quite a bit of buzz. So my take is: live with it, or play soft, or raise your action, or some combination of these things and enjoy.
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Tried the 810 and 910 last year (something like that.. I am horrible with numbers) Nicer than anything else I had played at the time for the money.
I wouldnt say they lacked mojo but they DID need to be broken in. For a new guitar that is understandable. The only issue I had was with the 910 had a bad rattle from the pick guard. Not a deal breaker but annoying all the same. I did not plug them in so will not comment on the pickups.
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I own an 810ce and used to also have a TM146. Both have excellent necks... low setup and fast feeling, smooth necks. The 810ce neck was a bit rounder than the TM145, but both were really nice. If a new guitar is what you want, then the Eastman is a nice choice. If lower action is really what you want, I would agree with Mr. B's post above and try a different tech. When I first received the TM146 (used) the action was set very high. The guitar tech I used did a superb job setting the action like I like it... low.
Good luck.
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So, pretty much the best of the Marxist dictatorship guitars, eh?
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BTW there is a nice little photo essay on the Eastman factory in Fretboard Journal this month.
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I used to have an Eastman 805CE and now have an 803CE. Very nice neck on both that will setup as low as you want. The neck profile is a nice 'C' shape that is fatter than Gibsons 60's profile. It is also fatter than the Heritage 575 Custom I used to have. The best comparison might be the neck on the Ibanez AS103NT Artcore Custom I just traded off. Very similar, comfortable profile.
Both of my Eastmans have been very stable with great fretwork.
I am not 100% happy with the electronics but a pickup swap is no big deal if the basic guitar is solid.
They have a classic beauty and appointments I can't find elsewhere in the same price range.
Here is a pic to pierce your soul a bit.
Last edited by jazzrat; 01-12-2010 at 10:52 AM.
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Here's a picture of my 803ce. I really like the sound of the pickup btw. It has a great neck and really low action. The workmanship is flawless as far as I can tell. My favorite guitar:
Last edited by fep; 01-12-2010 at 11:34 AM.
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I have an Eastman 805ce which plays great but has needed a setup in the past to improve the action and avoid buzzing. I also agree with a number of the responses that you need to get your present guitar to a qualified luthier before you consider buying anything as this could be an easy fix. With low action you also need to maintain a constant humidity or you'll get buzzing with a change in the action. Humidify your guitar if not already done then get it looked at by another luthier.
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I have played dozens of Eastmans, and owned an 810ce for over a year. From their acoustics, to their archtops, to the El Rey, I think Eastman builds a wonderful guitar for the $.
The bottom line to me is, if you found a US made guitar of the same quality, it would be quite a bit more. Eastmans are a great value at their price point.
Mr. B, would you mine defining "mojo" as it applies to guitars?
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I have an 805ce that I've had for about 2 or 3 years now and love it. I did change the pickup and electronics but this is a 2005 instrument and I hear that they have improved both. It's pretty small but that's it in my profile picture.
The neck is great and it came great too - in fact all of the Eastmans I tried were really well set up. I did lower the action though, and the neck can take some really low action, lower than I like on an archtop even. Nice fat neck, and I like the 1 3/4 spacing too. I would buy another one.
Regarding it being a chinese instrument, it's a really nice handmade instrument. I don't see what's not to like as I could care less about politics.
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I would like to thank all of you for your replies. As for my current guitar, I think the truss is as far is it will go(too much force is needed to get it to move so I'm not daring to try). To get 4/64 action at the 12th fret, I have to lower the bridge. This results in fretting out pretty bad around the 9th fret and up.
What would a tech do to fix this problem besides adjusting the bridge height or tightening the truss? I don't think the truss should be tightened any further and raising the bridge makes the action high(above 4/64ths), and lowering the bridge to 4/64ths results in the guitar fretting out pretty badly around the 9th fret and on. When you say "setup", does that include things like fret levelling? Is it a fret level that I need? I don't know what to do other than adjust the bridge.
Thanks again for everyone's help
EDIT: I tweaked my guitar a bit and its not so bad, but its still there so i have to play softly. I would still appreciate your responses regarding what my options are at this point should the problem really bother me. I wouldn't mind forking money for a fret level if that will solve it for sure.Last edited by heavyblues; 01-13-2010 at 03:00 AM.
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Rio, Originally Posted by rio
What did you replace the stock pickup and electronics with on your 805ce? Still thumb wheel pots?
Thanks,
Steve
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I'll second that and add that they've stood the test of time. Of course, I'm biased. I own six of them (only two are archtops). Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Brad
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Hi Steve, I first used an old Benedetto floater, then a stock pickup from an old GB-10, and then found a Kent Armstrong floating PAF on ebay (the kind they sell at archtop.com). It was perfect for the guitar and I haven't had any thoughts of changing it. Originally Posted by Steve Z
The electronics I changed to mini pots mounted on the pickguard after drilling in a couple holes, one for volume and one for tone. It only had a volume thumbwheel when I got it so that was one reason for swapping the electronics, but ironically since I got the pickup I haven't even used my tone knob so I took it off.
Paul
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Paul,
Thanks for the info. Sounds like you made some significant changes to improve the tone of the guitar.
Cheers,
Steve
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well, this here is the biggest problem! Originally Posted by heavyblues
Please, anyone who reads this, please listen to me. The truss rod is not used to adjust action, only the neck's relief. A quarter turn is a lot. If your truss rod is tightened as far is it will go, it's been over adjusted. your neck is either dead flat or has a forward bow by now, both of which could be the source of your problem.
4/64 (1/16th of an inch) is pretty damn low, lower than i like, but not unreasonable. but folks who love low action need to realize something-- strings vibrate in an elliptical pattern, meaning the vibration over the course of the string is wider around that 9-15th fret area than it is near the nut (low frets) or bridge. This means that especially a fatter wound string, set low, a played with some force on a dead flat neck (or worse, one with a forward bow--that'll ruin everything) might "fret out"--buzz and rattle against a higher than is being played. My guess is your truss rod doesn't need tightening, it's the opposite--that neck needs a little relief! (slight back bow)
set the action where you like it. loosen the truss rod a bit (1/4 turn at a time, give it a day to settle before re-adjusting) and see what happens. if you're still having problems after introducing some relief into that neck, you might have a high fret somewhere, and yes, i consider at least an inspection of fret height part of a setup.
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Regarding action, it has always seemed to me that assuming level frets, and a straight and well adjusted neck (regarding the amount of bow/relief) then there must be a natural limit to how low the action can go without buzzing. Things like string gauge, and how hard you pick will have an effect, but still, it should be the same for any brand of guitar, given the above. Or am I missing something?
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Here's a nice looking 60s A-150 that might well go for for under $2000: Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
vintage 1960s Guild with DeArmond pickup - eBay (item 230423552359 end time Jan-19-10 15:44:39 PST)
Disclaimer: I have no interest in this guitar, monetary or otherwise.
Brad
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Brad, that's a beauty ! Do you (or X-500) know when Guild changed over from Gibson-style headstocks to their own design? My "new" Guild has the headstock shown in the Ebay photos and I've always been curious about when the change took place ...
I'll be watching that one and wondering if there's a place for it here
cheers,
randyc
PS: Oops - sorry to highjack the thread, heavyblues !Last edited by randyc; 01-13-2010 at 08:35 PM. Reason: add PS
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Mr. Beaumont is correct about the truss rod only effecting the fingerboard relief and not overall string height. On the other hand, I've seen guitars that needed to have a bit of relief removed but it's adjustment nut wouldn't turn.
On a traditional truss rod (not two way) when the truss rod nut runs out of thread on the rod it has gone as far as it will go. Sometimes you can remove the nut and add a small washer or two to move the nut back a bit which in turn give you a bit more thread to work with.
If you get any resistance when turning the nut STOP. Don't force it. I normally flex the neck by hand to get the relief needed then turn the nut so all the strain isn't being applied to the threaded part of the rod.
If you're unsure of your skills you might want to have a qualified luthier do the work. If you want to look into tools and materials for working on guitars check out Stewart-MacDonald: Everything for building and repairing stringed instruments!.
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