The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Hi everyone!

    This is actually my first thread I post on this forum so I wish you all are able to answer my question.

    We all know that chorus is a very debated effect. Either you hate it or you love it. One thing we don’t discuss that much though is WHY a chorus tone is considered bad or good. What defines a cheesy respectively a natural chorus? I’ll be happy if you also can post or recommend some examples of each type of chorus effect we’re talking about and tell me the differences.

    Observe that this is not a thread to debate the existence of chorus. Summarized, we shall instead discuss WHY a chorus tone is considered cheesy or natural.

    I look forward to hear your answers!

    Bbmaj7#5#9

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  3. #2

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    I never heard anyone say there was anything natural sounding about a chorus, so I don't quite understand the question.

  4. #3

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    I don't get it either- all chorus sounds cheesy to me. I have a Boss chorus pedal I bought in the 80s and I use it for about a minute every five years or so, then put it back into the Storage Tub of Useless Pedals (which is pretty much all of them other than my reverb pedal). There isn't a "natural" chorus sound IMHO.

  5. #4

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    I don‘t understand the question either since chorus does not sound natural in the first place.

    I happen to like it though. I agree that it was overused in the 80s and I could not care less about the type of tone Mike Stern produces (in fact, I can‘t listen to that). However, I am a huge fan of the way that Gilmour used chorus in the 90s. It made for a super rich guitar sound. I also like chorus on slow, sparsely picked arpeggios but typically not so much for single line stuff.

  6. #5

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    The only thing separating both concepts is personal opinion.

    Next question?

  7. #6

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    Personally I don’t find chorus quite so objectionable if the ‘rate/speed’ (whatever you call it ) is slow, and if the effect is not too ‘in your face’. I have some John Abercrombie stuff where it sounds ok e.g. ‘Open Land’. Also John Scofield on the Joe Henderson Miles Davis record ‘So Near So Far’.

    So I guess I prefer it to be subtle. But when I try using the chorus effect on my Roland cube I start to dislike it after a few minutes, I can’t make it work for me.

    As a listener I can accept it a bit more in fusion or ECM type contexts, not so much in straight-ahead stuff, I’m not sure why that is!

  8. #7

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    I once discussed Delay-effects with another player in the band. He's opinion was; -why use an effect if you can't hear it? My opinion is that if an effect is obvious, it's generally too much. I like subtle effects, that people hear only when it's switched off. If you increase the chorus rate to a point you no longer hear the swirl (possible on most studio chorus effects) you'll notice when you switch it off. This effect is sometimes referred to as "Fat glimmer" and sometimes It's useful.

  9. #8

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    I think the difference is between a kind of organic sound which Metheny and Scofield and Frisell get, and an overly processed, machine-like chorus, which we remember from 80’s hair bands. I’m not technical enough to know how it’s produced, other than the first seems to deal more with the tailing sounds, i.e., reverb, and doesn’t affect the main signal as much.

    My Fishman Artist has 2 kinds of chorus. The first is far and away the best. I sometimes add in a bit—slow cycling, effect at maybe 35-30%, tone rolled off a fair amount—mainly for ballads, say a fingerpicked version of Misty or Stella by Starlight. Our group plays standards ala Sinatra and Nat King Cole, so it doesn’t fit in every place, but on occasion it adds a bit of color to an otherwise mundane piece.

  10. #9

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    Completely subjective, personal taste. I never much liked chorus. With one exception, a Rocketride Asteroid pedal. Which is an EHX Small Stone, customized by Bjorn Jhul (BJFE), with Vibrato added. What sells that particular sound to me is the depth, the warmth of it. Hard to describe, but more spacious and lush than others I've heard.

    One test of these effects is how quickly they get turned off. If I forget I'm listening critically, and just play, that's a good sign.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    I think the difference is between a kind of organic sound which Metheny and Scofield and Frisell get, and an overly processed, machine-like chorus, which we remember from 80’s hair bands. I’m not technical enough to know how it’s produced, other than the first seems to deal more with the tailing sounds, i.e., reverb, and doesn’t affect the main signal as much.

    My Fishman Artist has 2 kinds of chorus. The first is far and away the best. I sometimes add in a bit—slow cycling, effect at maybe 35-30%, tone rolled off a fair amount—mainly for ballads, say a fingerpicked version of Misty or Stella by Starlight. Our group plays standards ala Sinatra and Nat King Cole, so it doesn’t fit in every place, but on occasion it adds a bit of color to an otherwise mundane piece.
    That sounds like a wise explanation of the topic! Probably it’s rooted how processed the main signal is afterwards. I know however that Pat Metheny creates his signature chorus tone by modulating two delay lines, the original physical idea of how to create a chorus effect. Maybe that’s why his chorus sounds much more natural to my ears than a hair metal band.

    But of course, gear is not everything on this planet. You must have the tone in your fingers too, like Metheny!

  12. #11

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    Just my opinion but I think the only thing that defines chorus as "cheesy" is current fashion. Chorus became very popular in the 80's and was probably over exposed. Now we have swung the exact opposite direction and defined it as cheesy and cliched. Some of my favorite sounds are drenched in chorus (like Martin Taylor on Triple Libra). The tone is rich and clear and the playing is passionate. Ultimately I think the real trick with any tone is to not care about fashion. Trust your ears and your heart and let the chips fall where they may.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
    Just my opinion but I think the only thing that defines chorus as "cheesy" is current fashion. Chorus became very popular in the 80's and was probably over exposed. Now we have swung the exact opposite direction and defined it as cheesy and cliched. Some of my favorite sounds are drenched in chorus (like Martin Taylor on Triple Libra). The tone is rich and clear and the playing is passionate. Ultimately I think the real trick with any tone is to not care about fashion. Trust your ears and your heart and let the chips fall where they may.
    Well said!

    Off topic: ”Triple Libra”, very nice album by the way.

  14. #13

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    IMO, the best 'chorus', if you're recording, is to double the guitar part (i.e., play and record the exact same part twice).

  15. #14

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    Another way to get a similar effect is to use a good pitch shifter. Set it to the same octave as the original note, but detuned just a few cents. Too little gives a phased, drony kind of sound, too much gives a badly-tuned honky-tonk piano sound. But the sweet spot can sound pretty good, if used sparingly.

  16. #15

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    Instead of natural sounding and cheesy, I look at chorus more as a texture that fits a certain tune or mood versus sometimes it doesn't. In the end, it's subjective and just about personal taste and signature tone.

    This chorus isn't bashful, but works for me in the given context.


  17. #16

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    I use chorus in my setup. I know the traditional guys don't like it but I use it in stereo and it makes the sound extremely fat on stage and makes it really inspiring to play. It fills the sonic spectrum in the same way as a saxophone does and feels big and powerful and inspiring. My use of it is pretty subtle I think. Here's an example.


  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    Instead of natural sounding and cheesy, I look at chorus more as a texture that fits a certain tune or mood versus sometimes it doesn't. In the end, it's subjective and just about personal taste and signature tone.

    This chorus isn't bashful, but works for me in the given context.

    Interesting!

    Yes, the context is crucial if we’re going to like the result or not. Like some other had said earlier, chorus will not work in some situations and opposite in some other situations. I think like you that texture is a good word to have in mind.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    I use chorus in my setup. I know the traditional guys don't like it but I use it in stereo and it makes the sound extremely fat on stage and makes it really inspiring to play. It fills the sonic spectrum in the same way as a saxophone does and feels big and powerful and inspiring. My use of it is pretty subtle I think. Here's an example.

    Really good trio, sounds awesome!

    Yes, I agree that your chorus sounds subtle. I also use chorus, but I create it manual with just a MXR Carbon Copy delay pedal. I have set the delay time a little, little, little bit longer to create an ADT sound. When I notice an echo the delay time is too long, but this is of course subjective and up to personal taste. Like many other have said subtle chorus is the best. In this type of trio concept it seems working very well for you.

  20. #19

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    For some styles and numbers use of chorus becomes almost compulsory for the ears of your audience. Think of "Bette Davis Eyes" or "Time after Time" - if you have a MOR audience you have to respond to their expectations if you want to keep paying the bills..... As other have said, context is the real guide to suitability, when using chorus - on occasions I've set speed, detuning and mix at a barely perceptible level and produced a sound fairly close to an electric 12 string, which can be interesting for arpeggio fills
    Last edited by Ray175; 06-17-2019 at 04:16 AM.

  21. #20

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    This is cheesy? I like cheese then

  22. #21

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    I love me some cheese!

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
    Instead of natural sounding and cheesy, I look at chorus more as a texture that fits a certain tune or mood versus sometimes it doesn't. In the end, it's subjective and just about personal taste and signature tone.

    This chorus isn't bashful, but works for me in the given context.


    I'm pretty sure that's a flanger (plus delay), not a chorus. Regardless, Summers' overall approach was so different from everyone else's at the time that I really don't think of him as an "80s cliche" chorus sound.

    John

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    I use chorus in my setup. I know the traditional guys don't like it but I use it in stereo and it makes the sound extremely fat on stage and makes it really inspiring to play. It fills the sonic spectrum in the same way as a saxophone does and feels big and powerful and inspiring. My use of it is pretty subtle I think. Here's an example.

    I was going to say something similar. Chorus and stereo chorus strike me as two different things altogether. That sounds great there, and yes subtle; not really an effect, but more a way to create a sound environment.

    John

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    I'm pretty sure that's a flanger (plus delay), not a chorus. Regardless, Summers' overall approach was so different from everyone else's at the time that I really don't think of him as an "80s cliche" chorus sound.

    John
    I think you are right about the flanger effect. Actually I haven’t heard anything about if he ever used any true chorus pedal. The only true chorus unit I’ve heard he used was a Roland JC-120 amp, otherwise it was just a EHX Electric Mistress flanger pedal with a choralflangey setting that created his legendary sound. And delay of course!

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Average Joe
    This is cheesy? I like cheese then
    This is just my opinion, but as someone else said there are three jazz guitarists today who have a more ”organic/natural” chorus sound. They are Bill Frisell, Pat Metheny and John Scofield. And I agree with this statement. Scofield’s playing technique and sound doesn’t sound cheesy at all to my ears. He is musically progressive with deep roots in jazz tradition, directly opposite to being cheesy.