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So recently I fell into a Silvertone 1484 "Twin Twelve" head. In case you don't know, it's a 1960;s era amp sold by Sears. Two channels, one with weird reverb and over-the-top tremolo, the other straight. Power is 2 6L6 tubes, nominal 35-45 watts but who knows what this one produces. I play it through the 2 10" speakers in the cabinet of my Yamaha G100-210.
So this is improvisation a'la Conti on Satin Doll followed by chord-melody of the head... just playing with this amp to see how it sounds.
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04-02-2019 06:18 PM
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I think you should give up your day job. Stick with guitar playing—you’ve got a gift.
Great sound, very, very enjoyable.
That is a very nice tone indeed. Really reminds me of the master Joe P on his best recordings.
And yes, the amp sounds awesome. Very “transparent” and warm sound.
Just for grins and giggles, play us something on the verb/trem channel. Want to know how “bad” it can be LOL.
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Nice playing. Glad you're enjoying the amp.
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Fantastic. I like the threads that have a real example (video clip). Beats trying to figure out what one is talking about like back in the dark ages of the internet. (remember Usenet alt.guitar.amps ?)
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Great playing, great sound! Very transparent and hi-fi. A bit like a Polytone. Thanks for the clip! Enjoy that Silvertone!
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I had a "Twin Twelve" when I played in rock bands in the 60's. I loved the spring reverb, I'd bang my fist on the head and it sounded like thunder. I plugged a mid 60s Jazzmaster into a Vox Distortion Booster into an Arbiter Fuzz Face into the Twin Twelve, got a great sound, yeah baby!
Nice playing, great tone - enjoy it Lawson.Last edited by ESCC; 04-03-2019 at 12:14 PM.
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Thanks for posting this...sounds great!
That amp brings back memories. It was my first amp, about a hundred years ago!
When I was first learning guitar, I didn't have an electric. But the nice people at the local Sears would let me play theirs as long as I liked. They used to have a pretty good selection of musical gear back then. Amazing that any of those old amps are still working!
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I couldn’t resist looking up the schematic to compare to various Fender amps, highlighting a few areas I’ll comment on.
A Baxandall tone control circuit, very unlike the scooped Fender circuit. With the tone controls at mid-position the frequency response should be very flat.
Solid state rectifiers, like a Fender Twin Reverb or Bandmaster (non-reverb). So probably won’t sag/compress much at high volumes.
6L6GC power tubes with very high voltages—similar to Twin Reverb voltages.
No negative feedback in the power stage. This increases gain, but might bring on some distortion when pushed hard. (Some people disconnect the negative feedback resistor in Fender amps to achieve this.)
The phase inverter isn’t the long-tail circuit used in most Fender amps, but is similar to the Fender Princeton. It’s supposedly part of the unique magic of a Princeton.
The tremolo uses an optocoupler as in most Fenders. It’s not a bias voltage tremolo like you’d find in a Princeton. The tremolo’s opto-resistor attenuates the signal immediately after the first triode. On fender amps it would be after the second triode. The 1 M-ohm resister in the input to channel 1 is to keep it’s gain close to Channel 2 (with the opto-resistor).
The reverb pot is ahead of the spring tank. Most Fender amps have the reverb pot after the tank. The effect is very different. The Fender standalone tube Reverb has pots before and after the tank, and calls the first pot “dwell”. I have a VSA amp with both pots and they have very different and useful effects.
I don’t know much about the 6CG7 tubes in the PI and reverb, but I think they are similar to the 12AT7s usually used in Fenders, to handle the higher currents in those stages.
In the preamp, V1 is the first stage of amplification for both channels, and V2 the second stage. (Fender dedicates V1 to channel one and V2 to channel 2.)
The standby switch mutes the signal before the output tubes, but doesn’t cut off any plate voltages. This might be a little harder on the tubes, since with solid state power supply the tubes will immediately see full plate voltages before the cathodes have warmed up.
If your amp still has a two prong power cable, I’d strongly recommend upgrading to a grounded cable for you own safety.
You sound great through it though. One of my favorite local guitarists lugs the combo version of that amp to most gigs.Last edited by KirkP; 04-03-2019 at 02:34 PM.
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The great thing about the Twin Twelve is that the head is to be stored in the bottom of the back of the speaker cabinet. It has two plastic fittings that when flipped up keep the head in place, convenient when carrying to a gig.
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That is wonderful information! Thank you so much for checking that all out. I’m still exploring this amp, but so far, I’m really happy with what it does. The absence of negative feedback at the power tubes might account for why, even when not actually overdriven, the clean sound is still to my ear kind of “raw” sounding. LIke all these old amps, I wish it had a mid’s pot, but it doesn’t. Still I think I’ve noticed the absence of the scooped mids comparing this with my PRRI. Someday when I’m better skilled at this stuff, I want to open it up and bring everything in it up to specs. I think the tubes, which are originals, are fine (judging just from sound). I don’t know about caps, resistors, pots, etc.
Originally Posted by KirkP
I couldn’t resist looking up the schematic to compare to various Fender amps, highlighting a few areas I’ll comment on.
A Baxandall tone control circuit, very unlike the scooped Fender circuit. With the tone controls at mid-position the frequency response should be very flat.
Solid state rectifiers, like a Fender Twin Reverb or Bandmaster (non-reverb). So probably won’t sag/compress much at high volumes.
6L6GC power tubes with very high voltages—similar to Twin Reverb voltages.
No negative feedback in the power stage. This increases gain, but might bring on some distortion when pushed hard. (Some people disconnect the negative feedback resistor in Fender amps to achieve this.)
The phase inverter isn’t the long-tail circuit used in most Fender amps, but is similar to the Fender Princeton. It’s supposedly part of the unique magic of a Princeton.
The tremolo uses an optocoupler as in most Fenders. It’s not a bias voltage tremolo like you’d find in a Princeton. The tremolo’s opto-resistor attenuates the signal immediately after the first triode. On fender amps it would be after the second triode. The 1 M-ohm resister in the input to channel 1 is to keep it’s gain close to Channel 2 (with the opto-resistor).
The reverb pot is ahead of the spring tank. Most Fender amps have the reverb pot after the tank. The effect is very different. The Fender standalone tube Reverb has pots before and after the tank, and calls the first pot “dwell”. I have a VSA amp with both pots and they have very different and useful effects.
I don’t know much about the 6CG7 tubes in the PI and reverb, but I think they are similar to the 12AT7s usually used in Fenders, to handle the higher currents in those stages.
In the preamp, V1 is the first stage of amplification for both channels, and V2 the second stage. (Fender dedicates V1 to channel one and V2 to channel 2.)
The standby switch mutes the signal before the output tubes, but doesn’t cut off any plate voltages. This might be a little harder on the tubes, since with solid state power supply the tubes will immediately see full plate voltages before the cathodes have warmed up.
If your amp still has a two prong power cable, I’d strongly recommend upgrading to a grounded cable for you own safety.
You sound great through it though. One of my favorite local guitarists lugs the combo version of that amp to most gigs.
Re-reading this I thought I'd assure you that the amp already has the 3-pronged power cable. I haven't noticed any grounding issues, no hum, no popping when I touch the guitar, etc. That part of this amp's performance was a bit of a surprise. I thought surely there would be some hum. It might be that it has had some good work done on the inside already.
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Unfortunately I just have the head, not the cab! Originally Posted by ESCC
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Hi Lawson,
Enjoyed your rendition of Satin Doll - especially the chord melody solo you played near the end!
I had that exact Sears Silvertone amp - both the head and the speaker cabinet - back when I was about 12 years old.
I loved it but eventually traded it in for a new Fender Super Reverb with 4 ten inch speakers.
Thanks for bringing back some great memories - I had almost forgotten about that Silvertone amp!
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It would be good to know if the electrolytic caps are good, since they can fail catastrophically. Also, old carbon resistors can drift and overheat. If you are considering opening the cabinet yourself, watch this first. He’s pretty good. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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I was re-arranging my playing space today and kept moving around this Yamaha G100-210 that I use mainly as a speaker cabinet for a Silvertone 1484 Twin Twelve head when I decided to hook it up and play it. No reverb (the reverb on these things is really mangy) and mic'd with a Shure SM57. Except for the hum and the periodic cutting out, I love how this amp sounds!
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Rich and creamy tone... I love it. I saw a Silvertone 2x12 in a shop once and passed it up. Now I would have scarffed madly, and taken to my amp vet to get some TLC.
I do have a small 1x8 that is quite tasty. Enjoy your amps and guitars!
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I think this amp could use a nice re-build or refresh on the inside. I refreshed the tubes, which I hated to do because they are all original, but they just didn't sound good. The new ones were a big step up. But all the other innards probably need upgrading. It does at least have the grounded plug. When it works, which is about 80% of the time, it's great! Originally Posted by citizenk74
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Lawson, it’s this simple. That is the perfect sound for the music you are playing.
Way to go man. Very very nice. The guitar looks great and your half step drop thing is really groovin.
Excellent.
Thanks buddy.
Joe D
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the old silvertones are beautiful amps...tone wise..the cabs & silver /grey covering (tho beautiful) are super flimsy..the wiring can be noisy...but the general spunk is there...with the right speakers...i'm big dan electro/silvertone/valco/supro advocate!!! some great tones to be had in that style/era gear..wonderful
cheers
ps- the thing wth vintage amps is that altho its great to find an old amp with "original" tubes...you'd be better saving the old tubes and putting in some new jj's or nos tubes...its nice to have the original tubes...but a 1962 tube in 2020 use amp???...it's not enough to just get a sound...you want to get good sound!
all original guitars are different criteria from amps..unless you are not a player and just collecting amps...thats a completely different issue
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Actually that's precisely what I did. All the tubes have been replaced and the originals are in safe packing and stored. The new JJ 6L6 tubes gave this amp a nice refresh. I need a tech, or some very, very detailed instructions, for going over it closely and sprucing up any parts that need it. Then I want to put the guts into a better cab. I like the old Silvertone look, but you're right it's flimsy. Then I need to get a nice cab. I think 2x10 is fine, but maybe I should try 2x12.
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