My Grant Green tone on a buget!

**Kathmandu Cat** · 03-26-2019, 03:25 AM

Hello! Big Grant Green fan here. I've slowly assembled a budget rig to match his tone. Here's what my chain looks like.

* Epiphone Casino Natural- All stock with D'addario .12 flatwounds (playing mid pickup with all vol and tone controls maxed)
* TC Electronics Spark Mini Boost pedal (@ 9 o'clock)
* TC Electronics Mini HOF reverb pedal (just a hair)
* Vintage '70's Polytone Mini-Teeny Brute (One with just the vol treble and bass controls plugged in the low input, brite setting). Vol-3; Treble- 7 Bass- 5

All this for under 900 US$. Quite happy with the way it sounds at room volumes! Any further tips? Thank you!

**p1p** · 03-26-2019, 03:38 AM

Can we hear the tone?

**Little Jay** · 03-26-2019, 04:12 AM

Here’s my Grant Green tone on a budget:

An old (‘76) Framus Caravelle with the Framus take on P90 pickups (Bill Lawrence designed!) through an old (sixties?) Framus Strato 345 tube amp.

Guitar picked up many years ago for $200, amp recently acquired for around $175.....

**Little Jay** · 03-26-2019, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by Kathmandu Cat

Hello! Big Grant Green fan here. I've slowly assembled a budget rig to match his tone. Here's what my chain looks like.

* Epiphone Casino Natural- All stock with D'addario .12 flatwounds (playing mid pickup with all vol and tone controls maxed)
* TC Electronics Spark Mini Boost pedal (@ 9 o'clock)
* TC Electronics Mini HOF reverb pedal (just a hair)
* Vintage '70's Polytone Mini-Teeny Brute (One with just the vol treble and bass controls plugged in the low input, brite setting). Vol-3; Treble- 7 Bass- 5

All this for under 900 US$. Quite happy with the way it sounds at home volumes! Any further tips? Thank you!

That's a cool rig that should get you very close to Grant's tone. I don't think his approach is that difficult: guitar with P90 into tube amp. Personally I like his tone with the ES-330 the best, but it differs a bit from recording to recording.

I read he used to turn mids all the way up and treble and bass all the way down, but he supposedly recorded with a Fender Deluxe amp present in Rudy van Gelder's studio, and a Deluxe only has one knob for tone. There are also pictures of Grant on stage with Ampeg amps, but those mostly have a Baxandall tone-stack with only bass and treble (like your Polytone!). So I suspect the mids-all-the-way-up story is maybe based on a single event or something.

My ES-125 sounds great for Grant Green stuff as well, so a P90 is a big part of the secret I think. I suspect the P90s on an Epiphone Casino are pretty hot and replacing them with lower wound P90s with Alnico II magnets would help in getting an even more authentic tone, so that could be a nice future upgrade for your Casino. Also, some Epiphone wiring harnesses are notorious for using high capacitance wiring sucking up a lot of your treble-frequencies. As a sufferer from MOD-syndrome I would replace that in a Casino as well. But then we're talking small details I guess, your basic setup should get it done!

**Greentone** · 03-27-2019, 10:04 AM

Great thread!

**Herbie** · 03-27-2019, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

Here’s my Grant Green tone on a budget:

An old (‘76) Framus Caravelle with the Framus take on P90 pickups (Bill Lawrence designed!) through an old (sixties?) Framus Strato 345 tube amp.

Guitar picked up many years ago for $200, amp recently acquired for around $175.....

Sounds darn good!

But hey... Grant didn't play that much chords! Not authentic!

**mr. beaumont** · 03-27-2019, 10:09 AM

Agreed, great thread.

Definitely, I think the key is a P-90 into a tube amp...boost the mids some way...

Another thing, for that Blue Note sound--don't use a Fender style "spring" reverb. The amp at the RVG studio didn't have reverb, so the reverb on those recordings is a "room" essentially, not a splashy spring...

I imagine the OP's rig sounds pretty great.

**Little Jay** · 03-27-2019, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Herbie

Sounds darn good!

But hey... Grant didn't play that much chords! Not authentic!

You are right, although Green With Envy is a bit of an exception, and he does play some chords in that head. I added some more since I was lacking bass and drums..... ;-)

**Herbie** · 03-27-2019, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Little Jay

You are right, although Green With Envy is a bit of an exception, and he does play some chords in that head. I added some more since I was lacking bass and drums..... ;-)

You’re right, many chords in that. More than I have ever heard from him! Should listen more.

**omphalopsychos** · 03-27-2019, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Agreed, great thread.

Definitely, I think the key is a P-90 into a tube amp...boost the mids some way...

Another thing, for that Blue Note sound--don't use a Fender style "spring" reverb. The amp at the RVG studio didn't have reverb, so the reverb on those recordings is a "room" essentially, not a splashy spring...

I imagine the OP's rig sounds pretty great.

Or maybe a plate reverb? Either way, the point is that the reverb was applied to the recorded track, not to the amplified guitar signal. I think this is an important aspect about trying to emulate an artist's recorded sound. Sometimes it's not really possible because they didn't sound like that in person.

**mr. beaumont** · 03-27-2019, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by omphalopsychos

Or maybe a plate reverb? Either way, the point is that the reverb was applied to the recorded track, not to the amplified guitar signal. I think this is an important aspect about trying to emulate an artist's recorded sound. Sometimes it's not really possible because they didn't sound like that in person.

Exactly.

I'd imagine, live (and from what I can tell of the clips I have seen of Grant) he didn't use any reverb at all.

**neatomic** · 03-27-2019, 06:45 PM

hard to beat a standard epi casino for a budget grant green tone...tho the current standard casino is not vintage spec/true..but with some knob tweaking, it'll get you in the ballpark..some pickup and wiring upgrades will even get you closer...

low watt, two 6v6 tube amp with low power handling speaker take you the rest of the way...plenty of choices these days

the low watt jensen speakers distorted/crunched as much as the amp/tubes...contributed to that overall smokey tone...(when being pushed)

op kathmandu cat (namaste) is making up for lack of smokey tone (with clean ss polytone), by using tc spark boost pedal...with right tube amp..would not be needed

cheers

**Kathmandu Cat** · 03-28-2019, 12:31 AM

Namaste! The Casino and Polytone is my office rig for after work hours noodling so I'm gonna try it through my Princeton Reverb at home this weekend. You maybe right about not needing a spark boost with the PR. I've also tried it with my Yamaha THR10C where I've made an 'Idle moments' patch which sounds great. The biggest improvement tonewise with the Casino was putting in flatwounds. It sounded so right from the first note.

**Little Jay** · 03-28-2019, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Kathmandu Cat

Namaste! The Casino and Polytone is my office rig for after work hours noodling so I'm gonna try it through my Princeton Reverb at home this weekend. You maybe right about not needing a spark boost with the PR. I've also tried it with my Yamaha THR10C where I've made an 'Idle moments' patch which sounds great. The biggest improvement tonewise with the Casino was putting in flatwounds. It sounded so right from the first note.

Yeah, flatwounds, definitely flatwounds!