Fretboard "Dots"

[BMaag]

I was looking at a picture of a guitar fretboard the other day which I was using to work out some ideas, and I started thinking about the dots on the fretboard. Why are they where they are? I tried finding some information about the history behind it via google but I had no luck. Personally, I think it is one of the worst inventions man has ever come up with. Other than the two dots at the 12th fret, I don't see any logic behind it.

Does anyone here know the history behind the placement of the dots? I believe they went through several schemes before finally settling on where they are now, which implies that someone had to see some logic behind it.

What are your thoughts?

[fep]

Given the 12th fret is a not brainer...

This is conjecture, I really don't know the reasoning, just trying to use logic...

You want enough dots to help you find your way but too many becomes more than enough and it once again becomes hard to find your way.

So someone tried 4 dots between the nut and 12th fret. Seems like a good number and does meet the objective.

Given that you settled on four dots, where they placed them makes sense. It's symmetrical, and at no place on the neck are you far from a dot. And I think the two fret skip at the 10th and 1st fret actually makes it easier to find your way than if the dots where every other fret - this double fret skip provides additional differentiation.

Now my classical guitar, no dots at all. It looks really cool but not too practical. One gets use to it.

[BMaag]

fep, thanks for the reply and I agree with you. They are useful as reference points in that you are never very far from one on the neck, but they become a hindrance to me sometimes.

Especially when playing through changes, I feel that the dots limit my visualization of different linear forms on the neck. They tend to "pervert" my mind by always drawing my attention to the frets with dots, which prevents me from seeing certain patterns and forms.

I guess what I am trying to say is that having markings on the fretboard "influences" the way in which my mind thinks about the possible paths across the neck. On the classical guitar (without dots), I feel that my mind is more free to plot out paths across the fretboard.

In regards to history, I found out that lutes used to have a marking on every other fret, but that is all I could dig up so far. I will keep searching.

[Abaddon2005]

like you said, i think they're reference points. i don't have any on one guitar but i can't say i miss it much. i believe the accurate position in holding the instrument is straight (rather than with the body tilted to you) so you look at the side of the neck where there are dots as well.

[RAQ]

I have read somewhere, once upon a time (so I don't know how correct this is), that early guitars, or maybe even lutes, employed 'bolt through' capos with holes cut right through the neck in the most popular positions; and that once this idea was abandoned the position markers were retained for reference.

[patskywriter]

as for me, i'm just happy they're there. (i know this is blasphemy, but i wish i had dots on my nylon-string guitar, too.)

[randyc]

So put small dots on the side of the neck with typewriter correction fluid. A small dot will easily rub off (using thumbnail) and won't damage lacquer finish. Try it first on an inoccuous spot like inside one of the tuning post routes.

[Doctor Jeff]

These dots correspond to location of natural harmonics. Positions 5, 7, 9 and 12 are most commonly used in classical repertoire. I have been unable to determine when they first appeared, however, though every picture I can find of CF Martin guitars from the 1920's shows dots on frets 5,7, and 9. I haven't found any pictures of historic classical guitars (Torres, Hauser, etc.) showing fret dots on the side.

My classicals have all had dots on the side; I find it hard to play without them, kind of like finding it hard to play songs from memory without the chord changes in front of me.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

as for me, i'm just happy they're there. (i know this is blasphemy, but i wish i had dots on my nylon-string guitar, too.)

Psst... they have dots on the side...

If I ever put together a custom Tele, I'm going for an ebony fretboard with no inlay (just discreet side dots). I've seen other guitars like this and I think they look cool and understated, like the Jim Hall:



and I never look at the inlay when playing.

[derek]

Gypsy Jazz guitars deviate some on the dot location. No dot on the 3rd, and the dot typically on the 9th fret is on the 10th fret with GJ guitars. So, we do see some variation.

Regarding patskywriter's lack of dots, I agree with Randy. I have a student with no dots on her cheapola acoustic, and had mom use White Out to put little white dots on the side of the neck for her.

Fretboard markers are really of no consequences for us as players, as long as we have side dots. I mean, are you looking at your fretboard at an angle to see the fretboard markers when you are playing?

[lpdeluxe]

I have a fretless Fender Precision Bass without lines. The neck has dots placed where the frets would be at III, V, VII, IX and XII.

Those are not nearly enough! I bought a roll of silver pin-striping tape and cut squares out it, which I placed at the fret positions up to XV. Just to make sure, I added a black Sharpie dot in each one's center so I could find my way a little better.

With guitars, I constantly use the side dots -- for fretted basses, I rely on the fingerboard dots (all my basses have maple fingerboards). But practically any marker will do -- when I briefly had an Epiphone Sheraton II, I referred to the neck joint for the XV fret. Maybe because I trade off between guitar, bass and Dobro, all with different scale lengths, I have never gotten comfortable playing without markers of some kind.

Early lutes and guitars used gut frets that the player tied on where he wanted the notes to lie on the fingerboard. Perhaps this is the basis for the well-known contemporary music critic's statement that "One constantly hears lutenists tuning, but one never hears them play."

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

These dots correspond to location of natural harmonics. Positions 5, 7, 9 and 12 are most commonly used in classical repertoire. I have been unable to determine when they first appeared, however.

My archtop have them at 1, 3, 15 and 17, too. I think at some point they became decoration: it just looks good to have inlay in the big area between the nut and the first fret -- I hope I don't need help to find that fret!

On my classical guitar, the side dots stop at 12, but where I really need them is above 12, because the frets are close enough that i make more mistakes. But like Randy said, a little DIY works great here.

[BMaag]

The idea that the dots correspond to the natural harmonics is a logical conjecture, however it would only be partially true. There are actually 23 different "natural" harmonics along any vibrating string, no matter what the length of the string is. Technically there are more but there are only about 23 that are actually attainable.

When you sound a string of the guitar, you are hearing that string's fundamental frequency, which is actually made up of a series of higher pitches called overtones, or harmonics. These higher pitches are actually whole-number ratios to the fundamental frequency. When you play a harmonic, you are hearing one of the overtones of the fundamental frequency of the open string.

Basically what this means is that natural harmonics are available at every point along the string that divides the string into a whole-number fraction, i.e. 2/3, 3/4, etc.

Sorry for the physics lesson, I kind of got carried away.

[fep]

Psst... they have dots on the side...

If I ever put together a custom Tele, I'm going for an ebony fretboard with no inlay (just discreet side dots). I've seen other guitars like this and I think they look cool and understated, like the Jim Hall:



and I never look at the inlay when playing.

Now that's a beauty. Very classy. To me all that inlay and ornamentation on a guitar just looks gaudy.

[Meggy]

So put small dots on the side of the neck with typewriter correction fluid. A small dot will easily rub off (using thumbnail) and won't damage lacquer finish. Try it first on an inoccuous spot like inside one of the tuning post routes.

I had a classical guitar teacher once who put a small dot at the side at the 7th fret position with correction fluid, and I believe it's quite common for classical guitarists to do this, if by no means universal. I have a picture of Julian Bream somewhere (probably on a CD cover) where you can see that he has marked several of the frets.

[Funkwire]

Now that's a beauty. Very classy. To me all that inlay and ornamentation on a guitar just looks gaudy.

Plus, I've noticed when playing my archtop unamplified, you can hear a difference in tone between fretting a note on wood or fretting on a block inlay. It doesn't seem so noticeable amplified.

[Doctor Jeff]

The idea that the dots correspond to the natural harmonics is a logical conjecture, however it would only be partially true. There are actually 23 different "natural" harmonics along any vibrating string, no matter what the length of the string is. Technically there are more but there are only about 23 that are actually attainable.

When you sound a string of the guitar, you are hearing that string's fundamental frequency, which is actually made up of a series of higher pitches called overtones, or harmonics. These higher pitches are actually whole-number ratios to the fundamental frequency. When you play a harmonic, you are hearing one of the overtones of the fundamental frequency of the open string.

Basically what this means is that natural harmonics are available at every point along the string that divides the string into a whole-number fraction, i.e. 2/3, 3/4, etc.

Sorry for the physics lesson, I kind of got carried away.

Thanks for the physics lesson; I have forgotten more science and math than most college students have ever learned, however, I have remembered VERY LITTLE...

While what you say is true, it is also true that for an acoustic guitar the easiest and most useful unfretted ("natural") harmonics to play are above the 5th, 7th and 12th fret, and to some extent the 4th. I have not mastered fretted ("artificial") harmonics, but that's another area for exploration.

[BMaag]

Doctor Jeff, you are right. They are the easiest and most used natural harmonics. I don't know if you're into the classical cats at all, but if you want to check out some interesting use of natural harmonics, you should check out some of Nikita Koshkin's work. I've seen some of his pieces played where he plays chords that use natural harmonics on the 4th or 9th fret in the chord. Plus a lot of the more "modern" classical cats are implementing the use of harmonics all over the place in their songs.

[lpdeluxe]

I just learned how to post pics (instead of links to pics) here, so here's one of my fretless P:

[BMaag]

That's a beauty

[abracadabra]

I had a classical guitar teacher once who put a small dot at the side at the 7th fret position with correction fluid, and I believe it's quite common for classical guitarists to do this, if by no means universal. I have a picture of Julian Bream somewhere (probably on a CD cover) where you can see that he has marked several of the frets.

My Takamine has a single inlay dot on the side of the 7th fret, and I find that's all I need to know where I am.

I can see the point of having MOP inlays on the frets for decoration, if you like that sort of thing, but I can't really see the point of having basic dots, as so many guitars do. I think the fretboard looks nicer clean.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Now that's a beauty. Very classy. To me all that inlay and ornamentation on a guitar just looks gaudy.

I think it "pops" more in blonde:

[cosmic gumbo]

I like a lot of wood on the fretboard, so I've always chosen dots over block inlays on my necks.

[P.J.]

I was looking at a picture of a guitar fretboard the other day which I was using to work out some ideas, and I started thinking about the dots on the fretboard. Why are they where they are? I tried finding some information about the history behind it via google but I had no luck. Personally, I think it is one of the worst inventions man has ever come up with. Other than the two dots at the 12th fret, I don't see any logic behind it.

Does anyone here know the history behind the placement of the dots? I believe they went through several schemes before finally settling on where they are now, which implies that someone had to see some logic behind it.

What are your thoughts?

My 2 Parker Niteflys don't have dots and I like the look of a dotless board.

=-0 pj

[BMaag]

yeah no dots is the way to go for me. Unfortunately, though, the only guitar I have without markings is my classical. I love my classical, but I rarely gig with it.