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  1. #26

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    Hi There,

    I'd apologize for reviving this old thread but reading over it, I see everyone seemed to be getting along... I am new here, and recently stumbled on a Heritage Rose (one that I have yet to play). The only other one I ever played said "take me home". I was very taken with it both in sound and playability. Not in any position at that time to consider buying it, I walked away.

    My question is, as these are fairly difficult to come by, and other than...whatever someone is willing to pay for one, what would folks here consider to be fair value for this guitar in say excellent to mint- condition. I see there is one (not one I am considering) currently listed on Reverb at 5k that has had some work done, and shows wear the extent to which it is tough to appraise without seeing and playing it. And given that it is not yet sold, the whatever someone is willing to pay for it is not applicable as of this writing either. While I get that Heritage is not the name Gibson is, in this case comparing to the GJS, I would think that the scarcity of this model would boost it's value some.

    Thank you in advance for your input.

    David

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  3. #27

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    How scarce a guitar is does not necessarily equate to being worth more. While Heritage JSG’s are generally great guitars I would take a Gibson JS over one any day no question. As for simple playing them as a player much less different.

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Telerious
    I see there is one (not one I am considering) currently listed on Reverb at 5k that has had some work done, and shows wear the extent to which it is tough to appraise without seeing and playing it. And given that it is not yet sold, the whatever someone is willing to pay for it is not applicable as of this writing either. While I get that Heritage is not the name Gibson is, in this case comparing to the GJS, I would think that the scarcity of this model would boost it's value some.

    Thank you in advance for your input.

    David
    Is it the blond one? Any time I read that the guitar had to have the board planed because of upper neck rise (or bowing), I get worried that the bow will continue happening after the work has been done. It happened to me.

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    Is it the blond one? Any time I read that the guitar had to have the board planed because of upper neck rise (or bowing), I get worried that the bow will continue happening after the work has been done. It happened to me.
    Thanks for writing Woody. Yes it was, and (consistent with what you experienced) the rise or bow in the board and supposed correction is more of a concern to me than the shoddily replaced strap button. While I bought a '49 L4 that had a reset neck, I paid way less, the reset was done reasonably well, and I am not worried about problems going forward. As for this HJS on Reverb, I would steer clear. The one I am looking at is a different one, and one that seems to have been well cared for with no issues.

    David

  6. #30

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    There are many more Gibson models produced throughout the years, than any other company he was associated with throughout his career.
    So there are different people as well owners at Gibson during the production of the JS models.

    All of us have differe t likes and dislikes as well. So you need to keep in mind, which lines up with your tastes.
    I prefer the aesthetics of early Gibson JS models, but the 70s with plain wood are some of the best sounding ones produced. Also neck shape is a big consideration as well!

    I also prefer the more solid build of Gibson's to the lighter built Heritage style of construction. But again this a personal tone and feel preferance.

  7. #31

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    I haven't played a HJS in awhile, but remember it as nice guitar.
    For those who own them:
    Does it have the massive heel where the wood curves from the neck to the bottom of the heel, as found in other Heritage models like the SE, GE and others?

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Telerious
    Hi There,

    I'd apologize for reviving this old thread but reading over it, I see everyone seemed to be getting along... I am new here, and recently stumbled on a Heritage Rose (one that I have yet to play). The only other one I ever played said "take me home". I was very taken with it both in sound and playability. Not in any position at that time to consider buying it, I walked away.

    My question is, as these are fairly difficult to come by, and other than...whatever someone is willing to pay for one, what would folks here consider to be fair value for this guitar in say excellent to mint- condition. I see there is one (not one I am considering) currently listed on Reverb at 5k that has had some work done, and shows wear the extent to which it is tough to appraise without seeing and playing it. And given that it is not yet sold, the whatever someone is willing to pay for it is not applicable as of this writing either. While I get that Heritage is not the name Gibson is, in this case comparing to the GJS, I would think that the scarcity of this model would boost it's value some.

    Thank you in advance for your input.

    David

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone
    I haven't played a HJS in awhile, but remember it as nice guitar.
    For those who own them:
    Does it have the massive heel where the wood curves from the neck to the bottom of the heel, as found in other Heritage models like the SE, GE and others?
    I don't own one yet but I think that the angle is steep which actually translates to less meat on the neck from about fret 9 or 10 to where the neck joins the body. I am not sure about the GJS but recall clearly on the Guild that Benedetto designed for JS, that angle is slack ("fastback" in car terms ) by comparison. David

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone
    I haven't played a HJS in awhile, but remember it as nice guitar.
    For those who own them:
    Does it have the massive heel where the wood curves from the neck to the bottom of the heel, as found in other Heritage models like the SE, GE and others?
    I know what you mean.

    The heel is quite variable. I have a Super Eagle next to me with a flat heel though.

    Here's a pic with a Gibson in the center, a Golden Eagle on the left, and a Super Eagle on the right.

    Heritage Johnny Smith vs. Gibson Johnny Smith-neck-heel-jpg

    For those who think Gibson makes thin heels, I have four of them with the same fat heel shown on the Golden Eagle.

    My guess, and it's only a guess, is that it takes less time to carve a fat heel.

  11. #35

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    Telerious,
    I’ve had 3 Heritage Johnny Smith guitars.
    Each one of them were fantastic guitars. Each one i bought for between $3600 and $4,000. Each one I sold for less than I paid. If I was patient I would have sold the guitars closer to what paid but I am just not patient.
    The stock pickups are not very good. The tops are vibrant and thin so I think the pickups used on them are weak by design. The necks are incredibly comfortable. Of the 3 I had, the 2nd one I had was by far the one I shouldn’t have sold. It was a brown sunburst. I miss that guitar. I think about it often.
    I had a Gibson Johnny Smith and loved it. It was pretty much immaculate and it is very to find one in that condition. Everything about that guitar was top notch. I paid $6300, changed the frets and the pickguard Sold it for less than I paid. (Notice a trend here..) I miss that guitar more than any guitar I’ve ever owned. I’ve written off having another one like it in my life.

    The guitars had a VERY different feel. Even though they were made in the same shop, by the same staff of extraordinary luthiers, they didn’t feel like the same model.
    Attached Images Attached Images Heritage Johnny Smith vs. Gibson Johnny Smith-f3e97f80-b672-4aee-9470-660fe79ba41d-jpeg Heritage Johnny Smith vs. Gibson Johnny Smith-72a03d94-d566-434b-8d85-8064e1ecae83-jpeg Heritage Johnny Smith vs. Gibson Johnny Smith-7f253467-18e7-4356-9295-5915db5ff0b3-jpeg 

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max405
    Telerious,
    I’ve had 3 Heritage Johnny Smith guitars.
    Each one of them were fantastic guitars. Each one i bought for between $3600 and $4,000. Each one I sold for less than I paid. If I was patient I would have sold the guitars closer to what paid but I am just not patient.
    The stock pickups are not very good. The tops are vibrant and thin so I think the pickups used on them are weak by design. The necks are incredibly comfortable. Of the 3 I had, the 2nd one I had was by far the one I shouldn’t have sold. It was a brown sunburst. I miss that guitar. I think about it often.
    I had a Gibson Johnny Smith and loved it. It was pretty much immaculate and it is very to find one in that condition. Everything about that guitar was top notch. I paid $6300, changed the frets and the pickguard Sold it for less than I paid. (Notice a trend here..) I miss that guitar more than any guitar I’ve ever owned. I’ve written off having another one like it in my life.

    The guitars had a VERY different feel. Even though they were made in the same shop, by the same staff of extraordinary luthiers, they didn’t feel like the same model.
    Thank you for this Joe! I am curious how long ago that was that you sold the instruments for so little. That said, if a good guitar shows up, it can be tempting shell out and take our chances as far as the piggy bank is concerned. I only started following threads here or elsewhere when I began my search of the HJS and Rose. Last time I looked at these guitars I think they were selling for somewhere in the neighborhood of 4K.

    The one I looking to purchase is from 1996, with Natural finish (btw I love the burst on yours pictured ) and it has no inlay on the neck which also appeals to me. It comes from a gentleman who passed away who's wife is selling it. I see this as a privilege to carry notes across the bar so to speak, assuming it all works out.

    As for the pick up, I guess I am less concerned as I primarily will play this one for it's acoustic properties supplementing if necessary with the pick up. I have a Gagnon (modeled after Benedetto but impeccably crafted) that he built me with an inset KA. The guitar is sort of single pickup L5 that looks like a Manhattan and is a gorgeous instrument. Of course if this Rose sounds and plays as I expect it might, then I will have questions about pick-ups, pots and so on

    David
    Last edited by Telerious; 12-03-2020 at 03:06 AM.

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Grass
    I know what you mean.

    The heel is quite variable. I have a Super Eagle next to me with a flat heel though.

    Here's a pic with a Gibson in the center, a Golden Eagle on the left, and a Super Eagle on the right.

    Heritage Johnny Smith vs. Gibson Johnny Smith-neck-heel-jpg

    For those who think Gibson makes thin heels, I have four of them with the same fat heel shown on the Golden Eagle.

    My guess, and it's only a guess, is that it takes less time to carve a fat heel.
    Thanks for sharing those Marty. The Heritage Rose I am looking at seems to have a heel similar to your Super Eagle judging from the picture I have of that instrument (it's en route I have yet to play it).

    David

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max405

    I miss that guitar more than any guitar I’ve ever owned. I’ve written off having another one like it in my life.
    My friend, we've enjoyed some of the best guitars ever made in the history of the world. That is no exaggeration either. It has been a banquet of the highest order.

    To make a comparison, imagine being a judge at a Miss Universe pageant. How do you determine THE winner, and would it be the same one if you chose a week later?
    Last edited by Marty Grass; 12-04-2020 at 09:15 AM.

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Telerious
    Thanks for writing Woody. Yes it was, and (consistent with what you experienced) the rise or bow in the board and supposed correction is more of a concern to me than the shoddily replaced strap button. While I bought a '49 L4 that had a reset neck, I paid way less, the reset was done reasonably well, and I am not worried about problems going forward. As for this HJS on Reverb, I would steer clear. The one I am looking at is a different one, and one that seems to have been well cared for with no issues.

    David
    As I posted a while back in this thread, I owned both at the same time. The Heritage was a far better guitar both in fit and finish, and sound. Maybe I just had a Gibson lemon. The only reason I sold the Heritage is because 17" guitars became too uncomfortable for me. Otherwise it would still be my main axe.

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    As I posted a while back in this thread, I owned both at the same time. The Heritage was a far better guitar both in fit and finish, and sound. Maybe I just had a Gibson lemon. The only reason I sold the Heritage is because 17" guitars became too uncomfortable for me. Otherwise it would still be my main axe.
    I fully understand the sizing preference. I always wanted to like the ES 335 but for the size, and weight combination. I am okay with 17 inch archtops that aren't also heavy. I've ended up with a CS 356 and love that instrument -wishing only for a fatter neck profile.

    David

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Grass
    I know what you mean.
    The heel is quite variable. I have a Super Eagle next to me with a flat heel though.
    Here's a pic with a Gibson in the center, a Golden Eagle on the left, and a Super Eagle on the right. For those who think Gibson makes thin heels, I have four of them with the same fat heel shown on the Golden Eagle. My guess, and it's only a guess, is that it takes less time to carve a fat heel.
    Thanks. I'm thinking of the curvature of the heel, not its size where it terminates. I'll post a few pix that are self-explanatory to show what I mean. Here's one. This is a Roger Luxus heel profile from the late 1950s.
    Attached Images Attached Images Heritage Johnny Smith vs. Gibson Johnny Smith-rogerluxus-ed-heel1-jpg 

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    As I posted a while back in this thread, I owned both at the same time. The Heritage was a far better guitar both in fit and finish, and sound. Maybe I just had a Gibson lemon. The only reason I sold the Heritage is because 17" guitars became too uncomfortable for me. Otherwise it would still be my main axe.
    I might add that my GJS was from 1969, just as Norlin was buying CMI/Gibson. Maybe they were getting lazy/sloppy.

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    I might add that my GJS was from 1969, just as Norlin was buying CMI/Gibson. Maybe they were getting lazy/sloppy.
    I have a 1969 Gibson Johnny Smith and it is an outstanding guitar. It is one of the best sounding archtops I have ever owned and the fit/finish is as good as it gets. It is extremely stable and plays like butter.
    Keith

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Grass
    My friend, we've enjoyed some of the best guitars ever made in the history of the world. That is no exaggeration either. It has been a banquet of the highest order.

    To make a comparison, imagine being a judge at a Miss Universe pageant. How do you determine THE winner, and would it be the same one if you chose a week later?
    You are so Right DMG. Absolutely no exaggeration.
    I will always cherish the privilege of having each and every one of them. For what we do, it doesn't get any better. For me, the standard brand name stuff is as good as it can ever get. Even the crappiest guitar I have is capable of 1000% more than I can ever get out of it.
    We are fortunate to have such great instruments in our lifetime. In my minds eye, I see a poor little child, Living under a bridge with more potential than i'll ever have. All he ever wants is something that will make a sound when he puts his hands on it..
    I have NOTHING to complain about.
    Enjoy your stuff guys. We are fortunate.
    JD

  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by floatingpickup
    I have a 1969 Gibson Johnny Smith and it is an outstanding guitar. It is one of the best sounding archtops I have ever owned and the fit/finish is as good as it gets. It is extremely stable and plays like butter.
    Keith
    Keith, I am so happy to hear YOU say this. You have experienced the best of the best. You play beautifully. And you and I share the same opinion. The Gibson Johnny Smith is an OUTSTANDING guitar.
    I always likened it to a bank vault sitting on my lap.
    JD

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Telerious
    Thank you for this Joe! I am curious how long ago that was that you sold the instruments for so little?

    David
    Not that long ago.. 2018.
    I think the prices people are asking for stuff right now (for the most part) are ridiculous.
    And notice.. Buyers are not stupid. Most of the stuff you see on Reverb at ridiculous prices will start growing mushrooms on them before somebody pays the outrageous prices people are asking. We should always be fair to a fellow musician.
    For the amount of enjoyment I get out of a guitar, I should sell it for less than I paid. And I guarantee, it is a better guitar after I pass it on than what it was when I bought it.. 1000%.
    Joe D

  23. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by floatingpickup
    I have a 1969 Gibson Johnny Smith and it is an outstanding guitar. It is one of the best sounding archtops I have ever owned and the fit/finish is as good as it gets. It is extremely stable and plays like butter.
    Keith
    In high school I had a Les Paul from around that time ('68) and later an ES 175 ('70 sans volute) and those were plain-jane compared to the Johnny Smith. Both were very well made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Max405
    Not that long ago.. 2018.
    I think the prices people are asking for stuff right now (for the most part) are ridiculous.
    And notice.. Buyers are not stupid. Most of the stuff you see on Reverb at ridiculous prices will start growing mushrooms on them before somebody pays the outrageous prices people are asking. We should always be fair to a fellow musician.
    For the amount of enjoyment I get out of a guitar, I should sell it for less than I paid. And I guarantee, it is a better guitar after I pass it on than what it was when I bought it.. 1000%.
    Joe D
    I agree and will happily drop the price for a guitar I am selling if I see it go to someone who cares, and will give it a good home (regardless of their level). Though I find it more difficult to low-ball than I used to to get a guitar, unless I've followed it long enough to see the mold forming! I also see the loss of a few dollars as the price of admission to play some of these instruments.

    I was still curious as to whether there is an established baseline value on the HJS. I've now figured out that no there is not, so while a great playing and sounding HJS is less to purchase than a similar quality GJS (and yes I get they will sound and play different), it will also return fewer dollars if I go to sell it.

    David

  24. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max405
    Telerious,
    I’ve had 3 Heritage Johnny Smith guitars.
    Each one of them were fantastic guitars. Each one i bought for between $3600 and $4,000. Each one I sold for less than I paid. If I was patient I would have sold the guitars closer to what paid but I am just not patient.
    The stock pickups are not very good. The tops are vibrant and thin so I think the pickups used on them are weak by design. The necks are incredibly comfortable. Of the 3 I had, the 2nd one I had was by far the one I shouldn’t have sold. It was a brown sunburst. I miss that guitar. I think about it often.
    I had a Gibson Johnny Smith and loved it. It was pretty much immaculate and it is very to find one in that condition. Everything about that guitar was top notch. I paid $6300, changed the frets and the pickguard Sold it for less than I paid. (Notice a trend here..) I miss that guitar more than any guitar I’ve ever owned. I’ve written off having another one like it in my life.

    The guitars had a VERY different feel. Even though they were made in the same shop, by the same staff of extraordinary luthiers, they didn’t feel like the same model.
    But why did you sell them so cheaply? I sold a Heritage Johnny Smith on Reverb for $5k.

    https://reverb.com/item/3200909-heri...ard-1998-amber

  25. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max405
    For the amount of enjoyment I get out of a guitar, I should sell it for less than I paid. And I guarantee, it is a better guitar after I pass it on than what it was when I bought it.. 1000%.
    Joe D
    I've always felt this way too. I don't mind taking a slight hit on resale, seeing how much use and enjoyment I got out of the thing. Sort of like you're "renting" the guitar.

    Here an interesting biz practice. The upscale violin shop that my wife deals with offers full price back on an instrument if you return at any time to upgrade.

  26. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by floatingpickup
    I have a 1969 Gibson Johnny Smith and it is an outstanding guitar. It is one of the best sounding archtops I have ever owned and the fit/finish is as good as it gets. It is extremely stable and plays like butter.
    Keith
    I have heard that from many others too, I'm happy for you. As I stated earlier, I probably just got a lemon.