-
My favourite personal example of the point that sometimes cheap guitars sound awesome (not that equipment 'doesn't matter') is:
When I went touring ages ago with a swing band in Denmark and Sweden, and I was borrowing guitars on the road.
The first couple of nights it was an 1950's ES-175
The second stint it was a 3/4 Student Yamaha Classical Guitar with a 1/4" hole inexplicably bored into the side.
Now guess which guitar the bandleader preferred? :-P
-
02-09-2019 05:39 PM
-
Hmm? There are lots of things going on in this thread. There is the "tone of the instrument" and there is "the musician's tone." These are different things.
IMO, nobody sounds the same as they cycle through different guitars, although they sound like themselves. For example, you would know it was Wes Montgomery or, say, Eric Clapton, as they picked up and played (in Wes' case) different Gibsons--a ES-175, a L-4Cw/pu, and a L-5CES--or (in Clapton's case) different Gibsons and Fenders--an Explorer, a ES-335, a Telecaster/Strat neck, and a Stratocaster. Each artist would sound like himself. However, the tone would vary--which it did on their recordings.
I sound like "me" when I play the guitar. However, if I play a L-5CES, a Super-400CES, and a ES-175 into the same amp in the same room (Polytone MBII, for example), employing the same phrase, the guitars will sound different.
Heck, I have done this with three ES-335 guitars set up identically and noticed differences in tone. Anyone could tell with eyes closed that it was me playing.
-
Originally Posted by Greentone
That said the modern guitar scene is fantastically unimaginative when it comes to gear. Anyone put a nylon string through a drive pedal for instance?
-
Originally Posted by Midnight Blues
-
Originally Posted by christianm77
-
Originally Posted by christianm77
Nylon string fretless guitar (Glissentar) through octave pedal to see if it sounds like an upright bass. Check.
Trying rope core strings on electric guitars. Check.
Experiments are fun.
-
Originally Posted by christianm77
I thought the overdrive results were good.
-
to me 'tone' is usually what hacks strive for, instead of practicing.... (i'm not ruling myself out of that club btw)
tone is what people spend tons of money on gear to attain, but it's not attainable, because we should be in the moment enjoying the sound we are making and being in tune with it.... when people say a player has 'great tone' it means nothing, because, it's the playing that makes them sound amazing... then they go spend $5000 on a guitar, and realize that it doesn't give them 'tone'
it's like a zen koan, only not englightening
-
Originally Posted by Midnight Blues
-
Hey, patshep, that sounds about right.
-
Originally Posted by patshep
-
Originally Posted by medblues
It's a lot easier to buy new toys (for some) than put a load of hard work in..
-
it's also easier to justify buying toys when you tell yourself that you are continually improving your tone. Improving your tone by practicing is harder and doesn't have the instant gratification. I think of lot of what I see on threads like this are people attempting to justify the gear purchases they make by continually insisting that gear is more important than the player when it comes to tone.
-
Originally Posted by jzucker
It is the Indian, not the arrow, Tonto.
-
and I love gear more than most so I'm not saying people shouldn't be pumped or motivated to practice more by having more gear but if the new gear spends more time posed on the couch than in your hands, that it probably isn't helping you get better tone.
-
Originally Posted by jzucker
To use Greentone's example; you can't tell me that Clapton's tone with John Mayall's Bluesbreakers, where he used a Les Paul and Marshall is the same as his tone using a Strat and a Fender. It's just not possible. So, what is it then? Now, you may like his tone with either/or, or both and recognize it, but he sounds like "Clapton" because of the way he plays, i.e. his phrasing. Or if you wish, the way he expresses himself.
-
Originally Posted by Midnight Blues
-
Originally Posted by medblues
We all have our opinions, which we are entitled to, so agree to disagree.
-
Originally Posted by Midnight Blues
Obviously the sound of a sears guitar plugged into a sears amp is going to sound different than an L5 plugged into a '60s twin. BIG !@#$ DUH!
Folks don't see the forest for the trees. The point is that a good player can get a good tone out of any decent setup. Not that you can make a tele with .008s sound like a '50s L5.
Aren't you guys jazz players? How can you play jazz and then get so stuck on literal interpretations of language?
And that has nothing to do with phrasing. Oy...
-
OK, so someone on this thread must have said players will sound the same regardless of what instrument they play.
Not sure who that was, care to fill me in? Seems like a very black and white position that is impossible to defend in practice.
The writing off of everything that isn't the sound of the instrument and the amp as 'phrasing' is also a very black and white position, that I think is easily debunked by anyone with any broad experience of music.
It's a position that seems to me unlikely to be held by an acoustic player.
BTW am I the only one who HATES the sound of that driven Fender amp with the "Lucy" Les Paul in the last Clapton video? Gadzooks it sounds awful.
-
Originally Posted by jzucker
That’s the only I’m saying, trying(apparently failing miserably too) to express.
-
Originally Posted by christianm77
And I agree with you, that amp with “Lucy” sounded terrible!
-
Originally Posted by Midnight Blues
-
Originally Posted by jzucker
Last edited by lawson-stone; 02-11-2019 at 03:28 PM.
-
Originally Posted by christianm77
Elias Prinz -- young talent from Munich
Yesterday, 10:24 PM in The Players