Trade off between action and tone!

**merseybeat** · 11-23-2009, 03:29 AM

Hi, I have a beautiful Eastman slimline that has a beautiful tone however the tone is only great with a slightly higher action than I am used to! If I lower the action to what I am used to the overall sound becomes ‘clippy’ especially with faster licks!

I would love to hear what other players feel about trading off a little action for better tone!

I find a little compression from my Boss GT10 helps but in all reality I am training myself to play entirely effect free (except a little reverb).

Feedback most welcome

Eddie Hughes

**Anandbhat** · 11-23-2009, 07:33 AM

The action on my new Gibson es-339 is a little high but I love the tone and am hesitant to have the action lowered.There is something in the Gibson website about better tone with slightly higher action.If this was my only guitar I'd probably have it lowered since it's hard on my hand.
Anand.

**Jake Hanlon** · 11-23-2009, 07:47 AM

I would never sacrifice tone for anything and a higher action is something that only takes a little bit of extra time in the practice room before it feels natural.

just my opinion.

**bako** · 11-23-2009, 11:45 AM

Two possible experiments that I would try

1. Low action with a higher tension string
2. Higher action with a lower tension string

If anyone on the forum is a setup genius they could tell you best.
I'm just a player with preferences.

**derek** · 11-23-2009, 12:03 PM

Naw, my technique is lousy enough as it is without me raising my action. My strings are heavy enough that I get a good tone. Nonissue for me.

**whippersnapper** · 11-23-2009, 12:18 PM

The only thing I've found with higher action is mabye that the guitar is a little louder, but I tend to let my amp do that work for me.

**riovine** · 11-23-2009, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Jake Hanlon

I would never sacrifice tone for anything and a higher action is something that only takes a little bit of extra time in the practice room before it feels natural.

just my opinion.

Agreed, I think in general a higher action does get you a better tone, and it is definitely something you can easily get used to (within reason).

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 11-23-2009, 12:55 PM

I know with carved top archtops, a higher action will make the top a little "more alive". (As will heavier strings.)

**mangotango** · 11-23-2009, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by bako

Two possible experiments that I would try

1. Low action with a higher tension string
2. Higher action with a lower tension string

If anyone on the forum is a setup genius they could tell you best.
I'm just a player with preferences.

When I got my D'angelico, the action was a tad higher than I was used to. Put on a set of Thomastik Swings, got used to the guitat, no problems now, and a sound that I love.

**Doctor Jeff** · 11-23-2009, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by mangotango

When I got my D'angelico, the action was a tad higher than I was used to. Put on a set of Thomastik Swings, got used to the guitat, no problems now, and a sound that I love.

You might try finding the action you like and adjusting the pickup height to produce a better tone. This adjustment is overlooked by a lot of people (me included 'til I tried it).

**mr. beaumont** · 11-23-2009, 02:01 PM

right, if you lower the action, consider lowering the pickup.

have you had a good setup done? I find on most thinline and solid body instruments, you shouldn't have to comprimise playability for tone. Deep bodied acoustics and archtops are a different story though, as some of them really come alive with action a little higher than "low." I'm not really sure what "clippy" means, but it seems to imply the strings vibration being choked off to a certain extent. A good setup should allow you to have low action (within reason) and not have and "cut out."

**Goofsus4** · 11-23-2009, 02:30 PM

I now mainly play a nylon string classical guitar with a high action. It has completely ruined me for any other guitar - tone wise and playability wise.

I've often thought of going into Guitar Center and when they said "can I help you find something?" just say, "I'm looking for an electric guitar with a really wide neck, high action, and really thick strings."

I'm guessing that's the exact opposite of every other conversation they have during the day.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 11-23-2009, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Goofsus4

I now mainly play a nylon string classical guitar with a high action. It has completely ruined me for any other guitar - tone wise and playability wise.

Since we seem to love Godin guitars here, have you check out the Godin Multiacs?

Godin Guitars

I think their necks are 1 7/8" at the nut, which is practically classical, and they come in nylon- and steel-string versions. As for the gauge and action, that's between your and yer maker.

Edit: that 1 7/8" seems to be for the nylon version, and 1 11/16 for the steel (that's the standard medium-wide nut width). Still, I think they're cool:

**Goofsus4** · 11-23-2009, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Since we seem to love Godin guitars here, have you check out the Godin Multiacs?

Yes, they are really cool looking guitars. I actually did order a Godin nylon multiac a while back and tried it out for a bit. It was too "quacky" sounding and I sent it back. It never sounded like a classical guitar - although reviews I read warned about expecting too much in that area - the Godin has different strengths - if you want a classical guitar, then just play a classical guitar I guess! I just mic my sound hole and it sounds fine.

**merseybeat** · 11-24-2009, 02:30 AM

Thanks to all for your feedback!

Jake your opinion is most valued! Tone it is!

Mr. B unfortunately it was shipped direct from the factory; I am in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia so a full professional setup will have to wait. I can do a basic setup no issues but the thing here is something I have never faced before. It was shipped in 'rock mode' i.e. gauge 10 round and an extremely low action. I replaced them with Thomastik 12 gauge flatwounds and adjusted the truss accordingly (leaving a little relief). I got the action quite low and it was playable but the tone was still very much "Standard Electric"?
I raised the bridge a little and lo and behold the tone completely changed to a beautiful full warm jazzy "George Benson" sound with lots of sustain. It wasn’t a just subtle change; it was a completely different instrument.

Kind regards

Eddie

**Iamdagmar** · 12-03-2009, 01:49 AM

What is the action height for both Es at the 12th? What do you consider high? 5/64" is textbook for the low E.
The voice of the instrument changes when you raise the bridge because you increase the break angle which adds downward tension to the sound plate. The voice can become more strong - some call it bark. For acoustic archtop guitars a typical break angle would be 12 to 14 degrees. With a string height of 5/64" at the twelth fret is a standard setup. A lower break angle at the bridge increases the instruments pianissimo attributes. So more break angle if you like loud bark - lower break angle if you like to play soft.

**Shadow of the Sun** · 12-03-2009, 04:42 PM

The first guitar I ever played was a nylon string acoustic with a wide neck, thick strings and high action. As a side effect, when I get my electric (an Ibanez Artcore) I'm getting the heaviest gauge strings I can afford, and putting the action up as high as I can manage.

**randyc** · 12-03-2009, 07:37 PM

Here's a tip for those, like me, who prefer very low actions:

Normally, I tend to position my pick just slightly "behind" the pickup - in this position, I get best electric tone when using a gentle attack. But when I want to rip off a fast run, my pick attack is less controllable, I get string rattle and the tone is less than optimal.

By moving the pick forward of the pickup (slightly past the end of the fingerboard), it's possible to blaze away without string rattle because the pick/string movement is automatically limited by the low string/fingerboard distance. Try it !