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Flush, if you are worried that reverb hides articulation and can lead to sloppy playing. Try a reverb with a pre-delay control.
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11-25-2018 04:51 PM
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Nothing wrong with a subtle amount of reverb. If you notice it right up front, hey listen to that REVERB, you've used too much. Just enough till it sounds natural, less is more. I'm on record here as one who despises delay because I freaking despise delay. The "cleaner" the guitar signal, the worse a delay effect sounds to me.
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Reverb is kind of like salt in food. You want it to be there but if you start to taste it it's too much.
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I almost always use reverb at home. At the gig, maybe a taste/a touch. Most rooms are pretty reflective, as it is. I don't want to sound like a 50s recording, with overdone, echo chamber reverberation.
I prefer a good pedal, or an outboard Fender unit to the inboard circuits in most of my amps.
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Actually, I do like the Zoom time effects.
Originally Posted by flush
Well, it seems you're a little OCD with effects, that's not easy to solve
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My pedal board (Boss ME80) has a setting for Delay, including one for 100 to 600ms. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
Then there's Time (which sweeps it from 100 to 600), Feedback (which seems to set the number of repeats) and Error Level (which seems to set the volume of the repeated notes).
I'll assume that my Feedback control does the same thing as yours. Is that right?
But, I don't understand "low mix". Does that correspond to Error Level on my pedalboard?
The reason I ask is that I've never been able to find a setting for Delay that I like and I'm wondering if I'm missing something. What I would want is increased ambience or thickness, without actually hearing repeated notes.
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Low mix refers to the mix or wet/ dry control. Keep it on the low side for more clarity.
Those of you with zoom or boss multi units should have a plethora of secondary controls under the hood to do almost anything to your verb/delay, including predelay and high pass filters and all that. Almost any parameter you could think of should be there. It's super annoying and I don't necessarily care for that level of control but that's part of why I got ( and still use and love) a zoom cdr70.
Off the top of my head, the only other reverb pedal with a pre delay, high and low damp controls is the strymon blue sky, which was my second choice, had I not saved a bunch of time and money by getting the zoom. Seek those three parameters out, they are huge for retaining clarity.
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Thanks. The ME80 I use is the one with no under-the-hood. It's just the knobs. I guess error level is the closest thing to mix since it controls the loudness of the repeats. Originally Posted by feet
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Reverb is like a soft filter on a camera lens. It blurs the sound, makes it less sharp, hides the wrinkles. Sometimes it's a trendy effect, sometimes it's pretty, sometimes it's not. Originally Posted by flush
Reverb adds white noise that fills vacant spaces and colors the EQ. It's used on virtually every studio mix to make the sound appear larger, more natural and pleasant.
When recording an instrument track, reverb is typically added post recording.
Delay is another time based effect. A very short delay time makes a reverb effect. A long delay time makes an eco effect. Delay can be used to enforce the rhythm of the song, but the repeats also add perceived sustain. By controlling delay tempo, decay and level you can have a subtle effect that makes the sound bigger, fuller.
Delay is typically used on individual tracks, seldom on the final band mix. Use just a touch and hopefully it'll sound natural and pleasant.
Multiple delay in combination with reverb is nice. Password is "subtle".
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to increase ambience or thickness, try reverb after or before the delay, however watch out you don't get OCD over it like i did lol Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Of course you can't really play any surfy or rockabilly jazz without a bit of slapback. I don't even want to think about spaghetti western jazz without reverb.
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how to use those controls though, seems like you need to have had sound engineer education to figure those things out lol Originally Posted by feet
when i was adjusting my delay/reverb i felt i was just shooting in the dark whenever i messed with controls other than time/decay/repeat/mix
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Yes, when I say mix, I mean level Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Please let me know it these settings are of any help to you, I'm curious!
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The Zoom pedals are surprisingly good, for what they cost. Unless you use a very wet guitar sound, I don't see the need for an Eventide or a Strymon! Originally Posted by feet
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Not all mix knobs on delay pedals are equal. Most delays can't get subtle enough. Which for my purpose means you can get the mix so low that a single repeat (which is what I choose) is barely heard.
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the pre delay is how long it takes for you to actually start hearing the reverb, so you can space it apart to give you some clarity. the high/low damp shaves off high (or low) frequencies to keep things from getting too big, muddy and so on. keeps things from overwhelming your sound. Originally Posted by flush
can't you connect it to a computer or access secondary functions? i thought boss had an online thing too, like tc electronic. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
i know you were a long time proponent. i finally gave in because i wanted something battery powered for my acoustic rig so i wouldn't endanger my "good" pedals. now they are all in storage, and i use the zoom whenever i plug in. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
i did a side by side with my flint, mini reverberator, alter ego ii, belle epoch, et. al. it isn't *better* than any of those (it's on par with the tc electronic, i'd say) but it isn't holding you back. you can get perfectly good sounds. and you have more choices and parameters to control, which is nice if you have the time. and you can make little patches to suit your needs and so on. for $110, it is silly not to have one around. i sometimes want a second so i can stack up on the dsp intensive laser effects
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does it still add something when the mix is that low? Originally Posted by mad dog
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I understand what they do, but i don't know how to dial them in to get that subtle ambience that is not muddying up your sound. Originally Posted by feet
also how would pre-delay help when you play fast especially? the timing of the reverb doesn't matter much then does it?
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To the OP
Yes for me it’s kind of a reaction against the vogue for slathering jazz guitar tones in ambience. I just want to get away from that. It sounds so good it’s kind of like going on a diet.
Julian Lage, Peter Bernstein and Adam Rogers use no or very little ambience for instance.
Very interestingly the daddy of this, mr Metheny himself, seems to have ditched this for a much more traditional tone.
I think the tides of fashion are on the turn, maybe? The Kurt paradigm might be less influential now
Using ambience well is a real art. There are some quite big name players who I feel would sound even better if they toned down their delay a bit, but others for whom it’s such an organic part of their sound I couldn’t imagine them not using it.
But a lot depends on the room acoustics. It’s also a brave guitarist who can play an elevated amp with the speaker next to them with no reverb. Horrible!
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Originally Posted by mad dog
True. And most Delays don't allow control of the decay of the repeats. Most of them have a linear fade away that sounds unnatural. (Basically the second and third repeats are too loud relative to the first repeat.)
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Yes it does. I have two delays that can be this subtle. Skreddy Echo and TC electronics Alter Ego 2 set to "SP" or "EP1"... digital simulations of echoplex and space echo tape delays respectively. The Skreddy Echo is voiced toward echoplex tones too. Originally Posted by flush
When on along with reverb, you can barely hear the repeat. Depending on how long delay time is. I usually have it set around 500ms. It sounds different than just reverb alone, but not necessarily so that listeners even recognize delay is being used. A little more spacious somehow.
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This is one of Pat's most recent releases (recorded in 2015) Originally Posted by christianm77
He tends to jump around in his different styles.
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Great analogy. Originally Posted by mrcee
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A technique I learned is to set your delays and reverbs at the point where you can just barely hear it and then pull it down just a little bit more. You’d be surprised how noticeable it actually is when you toggle back-and-forth between dry and wet.
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Originally Posted by wzpgsr
I like that! (unless you are using it "for effect", like in Surf or Rockabilly.) Another effect I like to use with a "you only notice it when you switch it off" level is a slow tremolo.
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