Why Flatwound Strings in Jazz?

[Skip Ellis]

Just curious - why are jazz players so in love with flatwound strings? I used them in the past (waaaay past) on my 60's Gretsch Nashville but switched in the mid 70's to Fender F150s and later in the 80's to GHS burnished roundwounds which I still use to this day. I've put flats (various brands) on some of the 'jazz' Teles I built over the years and just didn't care for them -they were all dead sounding. What am I missing?

[sgosnell]

You probably aren't missing much. I still try D'Addario Chromes on a guitar now and then, just to see, but I don't like them much. Some people just like the dead sound, and that's fine for them. I prefer pure nickel strings, and they work for me. They sound good either amplified or acoustically, and I have them on almost all my guitars. I have no issues with string noise with roundwounds, I've learned to lift my fingers enough to not make much if I change positions. But the bottom line is that string choice is very much subjective, and my preference is not that of anyone else.

[339 in june]

Flats are the only strings that sound the same when worn out
That's why they last forever
And that's why I love flats on my electric hollow and semi guitars
For acoustic (archtop) or for my solidbodies, I take round

[deacon Mark]

Flats can give a certain sound electrically that roundwounds do not quite manage. I normally never use flats they are dead but a recently did a thread on going with a set of Chrome Flats on my Hollenbeck and frankly I like the sound. It is not as ringing and acoustic but for single lines I like the sound. For pure acoustic work then I can see that flats are just not going to cut it as well. My Hollenbeck is a very very loud 18 inch guitar so flats are not an issue they work even acoustically.

My usual set is .52-.12 roundwounds sometimes I like a .13 on top. I find if I have been playing a lot my hands tend to get stronger and I want a heavier string. That has been the case lately and may 13 to .54 would be nice. Flatwounds to me are really for the electric sound and they can improve that depending on your ears.

[christianm77]

Just curious - why are jazz players so in love with flatwound strings? I used them in the past (waaaay past) on my 60's Gretsch Nashville but switched in the mid 70's to Fender F150s and later in the 80's to GHS burnished roundwounds which I still use to this day. I've put flats (various brands) on some of the 'jazz' Teles I built over the years and just didn't care for them -they were all dead sounding. What am I missing?

Not all of them are.....

Don't like flats on teles or archtops with a strong acoustic sound, but on a 175 I can't countenance anything else.

[mr. beaumont]

See, I like flats on my tele...allow me to set the action at "barely."

[hot ford coupe]

My reason for flats is very simple. I use mostly DeArmond guitar mics and they pick up a lot of finger noise which my wife can't stand when I play. Flats make my guitar sound a lot quieter and my wife stays happy.

[Stringswinger]

I have flats on all of my archtops (nine of them!) and both of my solid bodies. My Gypsy guitar and my classical do not have flats (I am considering flats for the classical, the Gypsy guitar sounds best with silver strings and nobody makes flatwound silvered strings that I am aware of). I like the feel and sound of flats. YMMV

[Hep To The Jive]

The only time I liked flats was on a hollowbody with P90. Otherwise, no thank you.

I had flats on my Guild (175 type) with humbucker, and that guitar stayed home for almost a year, until I decided let me try pure nickel rounds that I use on teles, and that's it, love it and gig with it now!

That 'classic' jazz tone, 175 + flats + Polytone, is something I wanna distance myself from as much as possible.

[wintermoon]

There's a reason they're called "flats", they sound flat to me, but alot of folks dig em for some reason.
I like a little sparkle in my sound, so I use rounds.
And I don’t roll off the treble either.
Ymmv and probably does....

[Peter C]

I heard a CD playing at a club one night c.2000 and the guitar tone really caught my attention. The barman informed me that it was Ernest Ranglin, Modern Answers To Old Problems and I had read somewhere that he played an old Guild archtop strung with "fat flatwounds", so I had to try that at some time. I eventually did (not, alas, on an old Guild) and find this setup great for fast, thumpy single note runs (quick decay) and mellow chord melody. Forget the funk.

[neatomic]

flats are heard on thousands of classic recordings..from jazz to surf to rockabilly...guitars came standard with flats for many years

also all flats are different..materials, gauges, construction..there is no one flat sound...

hard to predict what guitar is gonna sound good with what string..all experimentation

flats are also easier on fretboards, frets and fingertips

tele/esquire with flats is a nice thing...luther perkins!


cheers

[Longways to Go]

A couple years ago I was committed to only playing roundwounds on everything. i thought it would greatly simplify things. Then I got unhappy with the tone of my Eastman AR810 which led to some experimenting with string choices on that guitar. I eventually ended up with a set of TI Swing 12's that completely transformed the sound from that guitar from thin to thick in a very complimentary way.

So then I switched the roundwounds on my 175 to the same strings and I'm also very satisfied with that sound.

Next up was the old L-7. I originally had phosphor bronze acoustic strings on it and they sounded good. Then I tried Monels and I hated them. I currently have Curt Mangan flat wounds on the L-7 and they sound really great. Different from the TI Swings -- I think I like them better -- at least on this guitar. The bass is less flubby. I may try chromes again before too long, but my string experiments can take a long time as I tend to leave strings that I like on forever.

My flat tops and solid bodies all have roundwounds and I'm happy with that. But the archtops are all sporting flats at this point. Choosing flats is not about finger squeak for me -- it's about a certain mellowness and richness of tone.

[entresz]

I love flats - but they need to be TI Jazz Swings ... the others are nowhere near as good.
Old school pure nickel round core strings, enough brightness but still 'bouncy' sounding if that makes sense.

As for rounds, my favourite set are John Pearse pure nickel archtop strings , again pure nickel with round cores - similar formula to the TIs but roundwound. They're not as clangy as normal nickel plated strings but a bit brighter than the TIs if that's your thing. Great with Dynasonics!

[rob taft]

For me it depends on the guitar and the type of music. I prefer TI's on my less acoustic hollow bodied guitars. My preference is TI Flats. I've tried different types e.g. Chromes, GHS but always come back to TI Jazz Swings. I now play almost entirely solo jazz fingerstyle and prefer the low finger noise, thudding bass strings and mellow trebles. I use an .11 set and replace the B and E with a .12 or .13. I also change the treble string about on a 3 to 1 ratio to the bass strings.

As an aside , on my solid bodied guitars which I have a dozen or so (but I just don't play them much at all), I use DA'd Pure Nickel. I have two acoustic archtops and they get TI Bebops. My one Flattop used to get John Pearse 80/20 but now get Santa Cruz strings. Classical and Flamenco guitars I use mixed sets of Hannbach, Saverez and DAs.

[D.G.]

I use flats on my Ibanez GB 40thii, but that's it. All my other guitars get rounds.

[Alter]

I love the flatwound sound for archtops, it is the essence of jazz tone in my head.. Although of course many archtop players use round or even bronze wound strings on their archtops.

[lammie200]

I think that some people interpret them to be dull sounding, but flats tend to only tame the attack spike in high frequencies. That's why I like them.

[patshep]

i've never really liked them that much, but now that i have two 'jazz' guitars, i may try another set... the problem i always have is that they seem to sound dead, i can make rounds sound dead, but i can't make flats sound lively... but the feel is kinda nice and the lack of string noise

[Jazzstdnt]

Reduced finger squeaks. Didn't Wes use them? I don't know.

Regardless, if one is going to slide all those octaves around like Wes did, finger squeaks are going to be a big challenge. Flats help you mitigate that effect.

[KirkP]

I often use flats when in a larger band or with piano where a purer tone without a lot of harmonic content plays better with the other instruments. For smaller ensembles or solo I go with roundwound strings. If string squeaks are bugging me I’ll sometimes use Elixir Nanowebs.

[DRS]

A softer tone with an emphasis on the fundamental. No finger noise when executing complex chord changes and note runs with a clean amp which you don't get in rock.
And I agree they need to be TI Swings. Swings are lively and clear. Those Chromes are very dark.

[Hep To The Jive]

What's up with that finger noise? I barely notice any with DA pure nickel, but I do remember having a lot more with nickel wound. Is pure nickel round almost noise free as flats?

[WillMbCdn5]

Perhaps it depends what you are playing. I have TI Benson flats on my 51' Gibson Super 300 and can see no reason to change them , they sound magic!!. When it was my only guitar I flopped around with Phillipe Bosset/ TI Swings/ Chromes/DR Rare until I realized I was trying to get one guitar to do too many things and simply wasting strings/money and energy. I came to realize that I needed a second guitar that covered what for me the Gibson carved archtop struggled with in terms of voice and tonalities. I found a Yamaha Grand Concert GC31C solid cedar top/rosewood sides and back etc. classical nylon string and strung it up with Aquila Alabastro nylgut strings and it also sounds magical but a different kind of magic.
Now there are songs and styles where I pick up the Gibson and there are songs and styles I pick up the Yamaha and oddly enough they influence each other and I believe have changed my playing for the better by being together.

Will

[icr]

Flats are only on my carved top guitars. My solids, semi-solids and laminate top guitars all seem to sound best to me with round-wound.