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Well there’s L5s and L5s.
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11-30-2018 11:32 AM
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If you’re after 30s swing, the most important thing is that you get something with a single coil on. Humbuckers are no-no.
Originally Posted by user404
I am in love with 20s to early 50s swing and I found joy in an acoustic archtop with a DeArmond floater. You can find something “ready-made” on the market (e.g. a Guild Savoy A-150, quite nice; or a Gretsch New Yorker, never tried). But like this you won’t have a carved top, or an old DeA. I have two set-ups like that, and would recommend both:
- A used Loar LH-700 (a LH-600 would do great too… but they’re all hard to come by in Europe); an Eastman would also do the trick, amply
- An old Höfner, plentiful in Europe (but you have to do some research as to what models are good or not).
… and buy an old DeArmond FHC (“Guitar Mike”) for approx 300€.
If you want to buy something with a lam top and a set or screwed on pickup, STAY AWAY FROM HUMBUCKERS. That’s the only important guideline
Get a nice P-90s equipped something. I think I’ll get me an old ES-125 sometime, and a guitar of that kind could put a smile on your face, too.
Compared to the kind of pickup and top, 16” or 17” makes relatively little difference. You have to try both and see which one is comfortable for you – that’s the chief thing. And forget about ebony, that’s less than secondary (sorry for being a pain in the neck…)
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My goal is learn to swing like Freddie green or Pizzarelli
I'm not interesting (for now) about modern jazz player.
Inviato dal mio FRD-L09 utilizzando Tapatalk
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I'm from Europe,Italy
It's not easy to find many archtop in the guitar store
What about peerless?
Inviato dal mio FRD-L09 utilizzando Tapatalk
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Hello friend, I’m from Italy too, I know the market, and I’ve been exactly in your shoes – so here’s advice from my experience. Originally Posted by user404
If you are after Pizzarelli and Freddie Green you just have to buy an acoustic archtop (ideally: all solid, carved) and slap a floating pickup on it.
As for guitars: Eastman AR (6XX, 8XX and 9XX) and Loars (LH-600, LH-700, or even a LH-350 or 650) are your main target. Careful because Loars have a very big V-neck, not to everybody’s liking (but great to play Freddie Green grips). Higher up, I’ve seen some beautiful Heritage Eagles and Golden Eagles go for much less than you’d pay for the top-tier guitars (vintage acoustic Gibsons and Epiphones) which I assume are out of your budget from what you said.
All these guitars are rare in Italy, but sometimes they surface on the used market. You have to be patient and look up second hand ADs on “mercatinomusicale” and on Reverb. Look up, also, the used section of Tomassone.it (that’s where I found my lovely Höfner). Or you can buy a new Loar from Thomann (and return it if you don’t like it). Maybe Eastman too, but new ones are pricey.
Used German archtops (Höfner, Hoyer…) are also quite plentiful on the market, but you have to do your homework to learn about the models and specs… you want to have a carved top if possible. PM me and I’ll be happy to send you the lists I have compiled.
For pickups, there is a wealth of aftermarket floating pickup. As said, avoid humbuckers or mini-humbuckers. I love DeArmonds, and your choices are basically:
- To buy a reissue for ? 100€ (Thomann has them). They are not exact replicas (they are not wound the same way) but I’ve heard good things about them, and tried one and kind of liked it
- To buy a vintage FHC “Guitar Mike”(? 300€).
- To buy a vintage Rhythm Chief (from ? 450€).
Look them up on Mercatino (found both there) and on Reverb. Pickups are small so you can basically have them shipped to you worldwide (… if you’re willing to take the risk).
As I said in another post, there is also an easier way: buy an Asian-made, pressed-top guitar with a floater. The ones I know are the Guild Savoy A-150 (would be my pick: decent acoustic volume and sound, nice reissue DeA, lovely looks, but I dislike the very ordinary “C” neck), the Gretsch New Yorker (mixed reviews there, and big V-neck), the D’Angelico EXL-1 (super-good looking, but not much acoustic volume IME and I don’t know about its pickup). It’s not as good as buying a carved top acoustic + a DeA floater, but it might be easier, cheaper, and exactly what you’re looking for.
Se hai altre domande, non esitare a scrivere. Ciao!
F
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Guilds reproduction of the DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1100 is actually quite faithful to the original. I have it on one of my guitars, and I love it. It can be purchased directly from Guild for $185 USD. That will definitely help to get you the Pizzarelli or Green feel.
Guild DeArmond Rhythm Chief 1100 Pickup - Gold | Guild Guitars
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Just to be clear, Freddie Green didn't use a DeArmond, or any magnetic pickup. He played a BIG acoustic archtop with heavy strings, and action most of us would run away from, and in his later career, maybe a little bit of mic.
Green's SOUND was actually pretty strident - it's just in the context of the band that it sounded super smooth and slinky, like he does. Which goes to show, the guitar sound in the band context is never the same than solo.
So that's authentic. And almost no-one does it - a few bands do Basie style big band music the authentic way, but to make this work you need EVERYONE to be on the same page. The band has to play to the level of the guitar. The idea of getting most modern big bands to do that is hilarious.
The instruments help too - super heavy set up guitar balanced against hide heads, small bore trombones, old school saxophones such as the Selmer balanced action and so on. Guys who do this seriously play old prewar instruments.
So that's pretty hardcore. And to make it work, you have to play with enthused, antiquarian people.
Bucky (and John) Pizzarelli OTOH plays an amplified archtop live - he has a lovely acoustic tone on his fine carved guitars of course, but uses a floating pickup (looks like a humbucker) through an amp when playing out, but has learned to set it and strum it to get that acoustic sound.... That's a different thing, but the compromise solution that works in the modern world. You can also play with modern instruments, difficult rooms, chatting audiences etc.
Lastly, there's the Charlie Christian thing, which in my opinion the rhythm chief will point you towards. I think CC is bit underrated as a rhythm player. He would turn the amp down and play nice and strong.
Even though from my experience of one example, the ES150 isn't a loud instrument acoustically, it sounds pretty good to me. The 150 is probably more like a modern electric archtop than it is like an acoustic archtop.
Really, it's down to what do you want to do with the guitar. If you want to gig there's some tough decisions based on what sound you want and what type of gigs you play.
For instance, Jonathan Stout is the uncontested expert in this style of guitar on the forum (well he pops up from time to time) and plays vintage gear, as accurate as possible. Thing is, I can't personally make any of his amplification recommendations for acoustic archtops work live. But he plays mostly (I think) dance festivals with sound guys and is a band leader so can afford TIME to get his guitar sound RIGHT. This doesn't work for me - I'm a sideman playing a lot of varied gigs and generally leaders get impatient with crap sound and feedback from mics etc
So I've just ended up playing an ES175, which is not remotely authentic. But I play in a style that sounds good... I know how to set my equipment up so it sounds good for swing.
TL;DR floating pickup or rhythm chief probably fine for a rhythm sound if you have a nice acoustic sounding guitar and know how to set your shit up. Depends what you want.
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Hi, just to be entirely clear, I did not mean to diss the reissues at all. Ithink they are not wound the way vintage DeArmonds are, but this is a technical fine point. They do have a great reputation and are well liked by people with more than impeccable credentials… Originally Posted by snoskier63
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Hi Christian, I had taken the Green/Pizzarelli reference to indicate just generically “swing guitar”, which as we know goes from Van Eps to Barney Kessel and beyond. But all the points you make are more than valid especially if it’s for gigging. I had assumed private, home use where of course you can just enjoy your guitar acoustically, then press a footswitch and get a nice electric sound. In order to give meaningful advice, it would indeed be good to know intended use. Originally Posted by christianm77
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Quite Originally Posted by radiofm74
Godin kingpin would be best for that imo
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Oh hang this is the fella with a budget isn’t it?
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bought an epi regent... I'm very happy! I have only to change the stock pickup, but for now it's ok!!!!!
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I quick-scanned this thread and was going to suggest that you can't go too wrong with anything the market offers. Nobody's selling outright lemons in this day and age. Let us know which pickup you ended up with. I've had an Emperor Regent for 20 years and still haven't found the right one.
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