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I have a Triggs that the nitro virtually exploded a couple of days after receiving the guitar. I took it Steve Holst cause he's local. He resprayed it with nitro and it came out amazing. It cost me 300 bucks and was totally worth it for me. So far it still looks perfect with none of the checking re apearing. If it bothers you it's not a super expensive fix.
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11-07-2018 03:54 PM
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Sorry if this has already come up but I haven't read the entire thread.
If it were me, I'd try to get it done locally if at all possible (Nitro is not legal to us in all states). A nitro finish is really soft when it's fresh and I'd hate to have it all done only to have it damaged in shipping. Which state are you in?
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$300 to refinish a guitar. He is either working for nothing or is doing something no one else is for that price. To completely refinish a nitro guitar by a pro would normally run well over $700. To have top notch nitro set up requires a lot of work. Time is money and it all adds up. The longer you let a nitro set before final buffing the better. 5-8 weeks do not get impatient.
Originally Posted by no disclaimer
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I'm in New Hampshire so the good news is that it doesn't get cold here.... Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
Okay, if I do this it might be good to wait a few months. Excellent point. I'm really thinking that Gibson is the way to go here if I do it.
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I stripped all of the hardware and did the setup. Also be prepared to count in a couple of months of wait time for the nitro to cure. Plus I took the guitar to him and picked it up to save on shipping.
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Circa August 2011, I contacted Gibson R & R and I received this reply (name redacted):
"Honestly, it is always best to leave the original finish as-is, even if it is worn and doesn’t look brand new. If we were to refinish the guitar, you would be looking for the value of the guitar to be decreased by 50%. Really, on vintage instruments, it is best to only address issues that deal with structural integrity or playability (such as a refret). For a refret, w/ new bone nut, you’re looking to spend around $600.
If you would like to send it in for a formal quote, please let me know and I’ll set you up to do so. Thanks for the inquiry.
Regards,
T.... T....
Gibson Restoration and Repair
Shop Supervisor
138 12th Ave. North
Nashville, TN 37203"
I did ask for a quote on a 1980 Super 400CES. This was the informal quote circa 30th August 2011 or August 30th 2011:
"For a total refinish, you’re likely looking to spend around $2500 and another $375 to replate the tailpiece and pickup covers. For a new case, that will be another $275. If you would like to send it in for formal quote, please let me know and I’ll set you up to do so.
Thanks,
T... T...
Shop Supervisor
Gibson Restoration and Repair
138 12th Ave. North
Nashville, TN 37203"
I have the direct email, telephone number and name of the Shop Sup. PM me, if you wish.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 11-08-2018 at 08:31 AM.
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Those Gibson prices are quite high. $600 for a refret and new nut?, $2500 for a refinish? Add shipping both ways and unless one is in love with a particular guitar, those repair costs make no sense whatsoever.
If I had a guitar with serious finish issues that bothered me, I would probably take the Deacon's advice and sell it and buy one that was without the flaws. Unless I could get the guitar repaired locally for a reasonable fee and the loss of resale value was not of any concern, that is.
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For what is worth now in the US due to cost of labor almost nothing really is worth fixing. Better to buy amother at least with most items. Even guitars if you have one that is not any collector's item. A cheap flattop of less than $300 is really only repairable to the extent that you make can get it playing again for little money.
The most frequent repair I do is headstock breaks and cracks. Most of these occur on cheaper guitars and all I do is make the guitar very playable. No need to do any cosmetic work just not worth the effort or money. Refinishing a guitar is fine if it is really bad and bare wood is showing. Contrary to what is heard the finish on a guitar is needed to protect the wood. Bare wood will pick up dirt and marks and finish protects the wood from sudden environmental changes. If all the finish is worn off the neck and the body finish is not nice then I can see refinishing a guitar. I had a 1953 D'angelico Excel non-cut that had the finish worn off the neck and lots of areas of finish were worn. Bill Barker suggested I refinish this guitar is was blond to begin with and I did have him do this. The guitar came out amazing and was stunning. That was in 1981 and maybe I would not do it now but frankly Barker was the expert and his finishes equaled D'angelico quality. The sound of the guitar did not change at all and to my ears it actually sounded exactly the same. So that was 1981 and Barker charged me $200. I would guess today it would be about $1300 for a blond refinish to be done with no additional work.
If I were to refinish and L5 cutaway I am guess the charge would be $1500 in blond. Sunburst is more money and this would not include any other work. Finishing a guitar is an art in and of itself. It is very possible to be great at doing guitar finishes but not really good at building guitars or even doing too much structural work. The options for finishing today are much more and it is getting harder to find nitro work because of environmental issues.
The best way to get good is to have a set process with all the proper tools for spraying and a spray booth that closed yet vented out. It can be done but compared to simply refretting a guitar finish work is much more complicated. It requires practice and again a rigid format that the luthier knows will work. In the end this cost a lot of money to just set up if you only do it a few times. If you do it all the time then you need the proper equipment and if you don't do it much you might lack the skills.
You need a very good air compressor that produces consistent flow. This will set you back I suppose $300. Then you need sprayers and nozzles and various air compressor fittings. Once you have this then of course the spray booth. You can build your own but it will cost at least as much as the compressor to get it ventilation fumes to get outside. For myself this means my spray booth is portable and I do it in the garage not in the house or basement.
The moral of this is that if you want to make money refinishing a guitar you have to charge quite a bit of money. Each coat has to be sanded and worked on in layers of time. It is not something you do over a few afternoons and then have a finished product. Until you have the guitar ready to buff you really don't know what you have in the process. Depending on the conditions of the air and the instrument itself and the lacquer it is a crap shoot unless you are a real pro with lots of experience. Doing a Sunburst is much harder than blond and I know some put premiums on blond guitars but do not kid yourself, a Sunburst is more work in addition to attention.Last edited by deacon Mark; 11-08-2018 at 02:59 PM.
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There is a thread in builders bench called surface crack repair that the OP might want to look at. That technique works quite well for small areas but does leave a faint line that can only be seen at a certain angle. I wish he would show us a picture to help analyze the situation better. My guitar had too many lines for that to be feasible. It cost me 300 but I would have lost at least a grand trying to sell it as is.
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Well, I was wrong about two of the cracks. One is just in the finish:
The two others do penetrate the wood. One is near the f-hole and doesn't really concern me that much:
The other goes through the pickup route and looks bad, but I suppose that because of the location, it should be fairly easy to repair:
It looks like there was an impact and that the brace might have been dislodged at bit.
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Lord have mercy. I feel your pain. Very sorry. Me personally would have to have it repaired. Cracks and brace repaired and a top refin and it would probably be invisible and good as new. The guitar is now worth more repaired than not. Question is answered IMO.
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That's not bad.
I'd repair the cracks and reglue the brace.
Refin that top and you'll take a big hit if you decide to sell down the road, just not worth it imo.
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Looks like the F hole binding is cracked in half too. Everyone has different values on there money. It is a new Pedigree guitar. I would fix it to a degree that satisfies me personally. That is a very personal call that only the owner can decide. I personally could care less about resale value. My L5's are sticking with me hopefully to the end anyway. I love my Wesmo's.
dj do what is right for you. I must admit I am a very anal guy. I get a dent in my car straight to the body shop it goes. Others could care less. It is your axe. LOL !!!
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Vinny, I think to most folks resale value is important.
Not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to say they'll never sell something.
I know you're a mint mint guy like Joe and a few others on the forum. But I agree it's totally up to the owner to decide.
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Well, that's some real structural damage. There's no way around that.
I'd suggest looking at it another way. Is the guitar functional? I'll bet it works just fine. Do the cracks negatively affect the sound? I promise that 99% of humans won't discern a difference.
What I'd do is stabilize the cracks and call it a permanent keeper. It will only make you feel worse to sell it at a large loss. Getting a new one will maybe look better but not be a better instrument.
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I think it looks like it has alread been "repaired". The glue is a bit messy around the brace, and certainly around the f hole crack it looks like someone has made an attempt to glue it. How did you take the photos from inside? I have a usb endosope which is really useful, but the pictures aren't that good!
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OT, but i figure most the gear guys will see this anyway. Those swirl marks look exactly like what I get when I try to polish my 175 no matter what i do. I use virtuoso polish and a microfiber cloth. Are they inevitable or something? Originally Posted by djelley
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You can buff out those tiny nitro scratches. I have a buffing ball on a drill. You can add Virtuoso lightly before buffing, even liquid Turtle Wax.
I haven't done that in a long time. Those swirl keep returning with normal use.
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I used an inspection mirror that I got from Amazon and my phone. The reason that it took so long for me to post photos was that I was waiting for the mirror. Originally Posted by plasticpigeon
Ultimately, I really am not concerned about resale value. I have way too many guitars. Seriously, more than I care to admit. If I sold-off my entire collection and kept this one because I don't want to take the financial hit, that's okay. The thing that I think some of you might be missing here is that this is an L5 WesMo. Those who have suggested that I just get another one - where? There are a couple on Reverb right now, but they are very expensive and not in great shape. The fact is that L5's in general and WesMo's in particular are rare as hen's teeth, and I suspect will only become more so. Its not like you can just walk into GC and pull one off the wall. At least not anywhere I've seen.
This guitar plays and sounds fantastic. The hardware is also in great shape. All of the L5's that I've seen have tarnish on the tailpiece, except this one. Ironically, it looks brand-new. It is totally worth saving.
I am going to send the photos to Gibson and ask for a quote. I definitely need to get the structural damage repaired. At that point, I'd probably be willing to go the extra distance and get a refin. If I wind-up with a WesMo that looks basically brand new and is structurally sound, I'll take that deal. Even if it does cost a pretty penny. This is a $10K guitar if purchased new.
Obviously, I'll keep you posted. Thanks so much for everyone's thoughts and advice. It really was helpful.
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so it needs more polishing? I always stop as soon as I see them. Are you saying I should keep going? Do they mean I'm only polishing half way or something? I certainly don't want to over do it, just once a year maintenance thing.
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I agree with djelley. We aren’t talking about a 175. It is a top of the food chain axe. Gibson will make it perfect again but it won’t be cheap. I have seen some remarkable repairs from their restoration shop. He will get his L5 back as new but with a thinner wallet. The L5 is only 4 years old and worth the repair cost IMO. FYI Gibson will charge double the price of a private luthier but it will be perfect. As far as the top refinish it will be a spot on color match.
Best of Luck fixing your baby.
Their are are a lot of great luthiers out there but few that do refinishing. A factory repair is a positive if resale is important.
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Given your situation, the structural issues with the instrument and your appreciation.admiration for the guitar, then by all means, get the work done to make it the best guitar it can be. That being said, I'd try as hard as possible to find someone local who was fully qualified to do the work rather than send it to Gibson. That way you avoid shipping in two directions, you almost certainly pay a much lower price, and given the fact that Gibson is in the midst of a corporate wide reorganization, you probably get a lot more certainty about the quality and timeliness of the job. I don't know the community in your neighborhood but you appear to be within driving distance of Boston (at least for something this important) and with all of the musicians and music schools in Boston, there has to be a really first class repair shop in the area.
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Moffa Mithra
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